Res: [tied] Re: Celtic Nuada and Gmc sax-Not

=bumpity bumpity bump=

--- In cybalist@... s.com, "A." <xthanex@... > wrote:
>
I am looking for etymologies which might explain both the
Celtic "Nodens" & "Nuada" ; as well as the Saxon "Sax-Not".

1)
One possible etymology is a Proto-Indo-European compound such
as "*Nou-da:nt- s" [PIE *(s)nau- da-] meaning `nourishment- giving
(spirit)' a possible byword for a deification of the notion
of `wholesomeness. ' This would tie in well with Nodens' associations
with water, healing, sunlight, as well as Nuada's associations with
warriors and kingship.
The issue is that I do not know how this *Nou-da- would evolve in the
Germanic tongues to form a compound such as Sax-*nou-d[a]

2)
Another possibility is that *Noudants may be derived from Proto-Indo-
European *sneudh- "fog" (cf. Avestan snaoda "clouds," Welsh
nudd "fog," Gk. nython, in Hesychius "dark, dusky")
The problem here is that I do not know how the Germanic Sax-not would
be related. My linguistic skills are minimal, but even more difficult
is the ideologic interpretation of Sax-not as meaning "Saxon-fog"
or "Sword-fog".

3)
Yet another solution is offered by Dumezil on pg 99 of his
book `Mitra-Varuna' :
In this case Nuada and Nodens would derive from the root *nedh-, `to
bind' (also nodus, `knot', Sanskrit naddha-,`fastened' , Irish
naidim, `I bind')
The second edition of the American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-
European Roots expresses the root as *ned to 'bind, tie'. The O-grade
form is *nod-. and is the root of such words as knot and net.
If this were correct and had a similar development in Germanic
tongues, it could be responsible for Sax-not as "Sword-binder"
or "Saxon-binder" .

4)
The final option is the most common, which derives Nuada and Nodens
from the PIE root *neud- meaning 'acquire, utilise, go fishing' --
suggesting that Noudants meant `grabbing spirit.'
I have been told that a serious objection to this etymology lies in
that the root neud-, so far as is known, is peculiar to the Germanic
and Baltic languages ; and has no traces in the Celtic languages.

On the other hand, H.R. Ellis Davidson wrote in 'Gods and Myths of
Northern Europe", pg 60: "Saxnot could originally have been
Sahsginot, `sword companion'"
Ginot comes from the OGH ginoz, meaning `companion', which originally
stems from the Germanic compound ga-nautaz, meaning `one who shares
his possessions, comrade'. This compound derives from the even
earlier *nautam meaning 'thing of value, possession'. Lastly *nautam
also originates from the PIE root *neud-.

Thus the PIE root *neud- can give rise to both Nuada/Nodens
as 'acquisitive spirit' ; and also to either Sax-ginoz 'Sword/Saxon-
companion' -- or -- Sax-*neud- 'Sword/Saxon possessor/grabber'

If anyone could help with these etymologies and rule in/out any of
the options I would greatly appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Aydan