Re: [tied] Re: Slavic *-je/o

On 2006-09-04 17:49, Sergejus Tarasovas wrote:

> What about the well-known Paradebeispiel *keh2uló- (Gr.
> kaulós 'stem') > *kahuló- > (Hirt) *káhulo- > Lith. káulas (1), Latv.
> kau~ls 'bone' vs. *tenh2wós (Gr. tanaós 'outstretched') > *tenhwós >
> (no Hirt) Lith. (Z^em.) téNvas (3), Latv. tiêvs 'thin'? Why of two
> synchronically identical acutes (*áu and *én) one attracts and the
> other doesn't?

Similarly in Latv. die~veris. I'm not at all convinced that *kah2uló- is
a secure reconstruction or that an intervocalic (and therefore
syllable-initial) laryngeal was capable of triggering Hirt's Law in the
first place. I'd sooner believe in something like *kauh-ló-, assuming
that the laryngeal remained consonantal after a semivowel despite its
vowel-like behaviour after nasals and liquids (which are lower on the
sonority scale), or even in some special stress-attracting properties of
roots with inherited "non-laryngeal" *a, which would allow us to
reconstruct simply *daiwér- and *kauló-.

>> Kortlandt interprets Winter's Law in glottalic terms -- something I
>> wouldn't subscribe to, as modal voicing is perfectly capable of
>> conditioning quantitative changes (with further prosodic
> consequences),
>> in my opinion.
>
> Yes, but I fail to see how it could be relevant here.

It has consequences for the chronology of laryngeal loss. If one assumes
the merger of inherited laryngeals with the laryngeal onglide of
allegedly glottalised stops as the mechanism of Winter's Law, that means
that segmental laryngeals should still be present in the system. If not,
they may have been lost earlier.

>> As far as I'm concerned, there's no need to insist that
>> consonantal laryngeals survived _that_ long. The "old iterative"
> acute
>> may have arisen at just the right stage, possibly after the loss of
> the
>> laryngeals but before Winter's Law and the loss of the *d/*dH
> contrast.
>
> So you assume the following relative chronology:
> 1. the loss of laryngeals;
> 2. "old iterative" acute;
> 3. non-laryngeal formulation of Hirt's Law (prosodic acute attracts);
> 4. Winter's Law, right?

Yes, something along these lines.

> BTW, do you have any examples for the Lithuanian counterpart of the
> Slavic "old iterative" acute? Any possible exmaples of stress
> retraction to such an acute in Lithuanian?

How about verbs like

Lith. klumpù, klùpti vs. klúpau, klúpoti
Lith. remiù, rem~ti vs. rýmau, rýmoti

cf. also

Latv. gubt vs. gu~ba^tie^s (Slavic *gybati)

Piotr