Re: genetics&linguistics

From: ytielts
Message: 43231
Date: 2006-02-03

--- In, "pielewe" <wrvermeer@...> wrote:
> --- In, "ytielts" <ytielts@> wrote:
> > Would you put me through with some information about the genetic
> studies
> > you have done on different populations in the world, especially
> > Northern Europeans. What kind of mutation has caused them to
> such a
> > look as blond hair, blue eyes and white skin? When and where did
> this
> > mutation occur? Were the earliest indoeuropean speakers
> like
> > Northeastern Chinese people? Were pre-indo-european population in
> > Northern Europe, if there were, identical with the indo-european
> > conquerors or not? [...]
> Others are better equipped than me to answer these questions, but
> would like to make three points:
> (1) There is no old connection between the North European Pamela
> Anderson type and Indo-European. Indo-European is agreed to have
> arisen much more to the south-east (present-day Ukraine and
> day Turkey are probably the best guesses, personally I opt for the
> former) and is intrusive to northern Europe, where it must have
> replaced one or more ancestral languages. The precise sociological
> mechanism by which the Pamelas adopted Indo-European, and when
> did, cannot be recovered, for lack of the necessary basic
> information. A very modest amount of information about Pamela
> language is retrievable in principle through the study of
> phenomena in Germanic (and possibly also Saami).
> (2) I find reading genetic studies that try to incorporate
> data extremely frustrating because most geneticist, despite their
> incredible sophistication where their own stuff is concerned, have
> not moved one inch beyond the mid nineteenth-century as far as
> mechanisms of language spread are concerned. More specifically
> tend to be distressingly unaware (or at least insufficiently
> of the role of language shift in the spread of languages.
> Pronouncements of geneticists on language should therefore be read
> with extreme care.
> (3) Genetically homogeneous populations don't exist.
> Willem
Thanks a lot for answering my questions, Willem. I am an
anthropology lover, however, I have a lot of rudimental things I
don't really get a hang of.
(1) What do you mean by the North European Pamela Anderson type. Is
it equivalent to the Cro-Magnon type. What about the pysical
features of the Pamela type. Do they physically resemble with
today's Northern Europeans? Did the original Indo-European speakers
have blonde hair, blue eyes and white skin or Did Nordic people
create the language as they say on some websites. Were all the
original indo speakers blonde-haired, blue-eyed and white-skinned or
did they vary in these three counts? If they did, how come? Let's
take proto-Chinese speakers or Manchurin speakers as an analogy in
this case. It is well documented that Xia(pronounced in Chinese
group and Hua group were the first Chinese speakers or, say the
Chinese language derive from the mixture of these two groups of
people. Central China, the provinces such as shanxi(Where Terra
Cotta has been found and Henan( The ruins of Shang Dynasty, which
was chronolicalzed between 1766 and 1122 BC by Chinese scholars five
years ago. A large number of human skulls have been excavated in
Henan province. Most of them have been agreed to be the Mongoloid
type. They must have been the early(not the first though) Chinese
speakers. They displayed physical identity. So my question is
whether or not the indigeneous in Northern Europe, or the Pamela
tyep as you mentioned pysically resembled the indo intruders. It
seems that today's Swedes are 90% blonde-haired, blue-eyed and white-
skinned. So does that mean that the pamela type were physically
identical with the new comers when they started to adopt the
exdigeneous language?

(2) You say that A very modest amount of information about Pamela
language is retrievable in principle through the study of substratum
phenomena in Germanic (and possibly also Saami). Can you go in
details please? Do you mean that some words in Germanic subfamily
fall out of the indo? If it does, please give me some examples?

(3)I do want to read some reliable books that well incorporate
archaeology, linguistics with genetics. Sometimes languages are not
concerting with genes. However, I believe that languages mostly go
with gene flows. To search for the origin and migration of the homo
sapiens sapiens involves the efforts of the scientists in
archaeology, linguistics and genetics altogether even though it is
hard to bring them together. If the out-of africa theory is agreed
with by most of the main stream antropolists, the pay-off will be
worth the efforts. Agreed?