Re: [tied] PIE suffix *-ro - 'similar-with'

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 42754
Date: 2006-01-03

----- Original Message -----
From: "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: [tied] PIE suffix *-ro - 'similar-with'


<snip>

Also, it's not intensive as Patrick suggested (I couldn't detect any
additional intensive mark: X-ro is no more intense that X, in
contrary). Also Patrick, Only an intensive mark will not change the
nature of X (that is the case here, as Piotr well observed )

It's strange that we have talked about -ro without examples:

I will try to put some of them:

Example-1: PIE *nebh-; *nebh-o- ; *nbh-ro
-------------------------------------------

*nhb-ro => "similar with *nebh-o ('cloud') 'result' of *nebh-"

a) PIE *nbh-ro

Lat. imber `rain, downpour';
Greek. aphros `foam, saliva'
Skt. abhrá 'fog, cloud'

b) PIE *nebh-os
Skt. nábas `moisture, cloud, mass of clouds, mist'
Grk. néphos `cloud, mass of clouds'
OCS. nebo, nebes-e `heaven'

Conclusions:
Patrick, is more intensive *nbh-ro than *nebh-o? For sure not.

Piotr, is aphros ('foam') "similar-with, like-a" néphos 'cloud'? For
sure it is.


Example 2: *(s)k'h2(e)mb- 'to bend' *(s)k'h2(e)mb-o *(s)k'h2(e)mb-ro
--------------------------------------------------------------------
For a PAlb Example: Alb thembër < PAlb *tsambra /cambra/ 'heel' < (s)
k^h2(e)mb-ro from PIE root *(s)k'h2emb-o- 'to bend' => see Greek
skambos 'bent, crooked' < *sk'h2(e)mb-o

*(s)k'h2(e)mb-ro "heel" = is define as "similar-with a *(s)k'h2emb-o-
similar-with 'a bent thing' (the result of a 'to bend' action)"

So Alb. 'heel' => "a kind of bent thing"

Conclusions:
Piotr, a 'heel' is 'bent' but not any 'bent thing' is 'a heel' =>
so "similar-with" is the only possible relation here.
(and I don't see any 'new intensity' of the 'bent-mark' in
Albanian 'heel', Patrick)


***
Patrick:

Every word must be individually scrutinized in order to come to any even
half-way probable conclusions.

When I characterized -*ró as intensive, I feel that in the majority of cases
of its employment, this will be the appropriate interpretation.

There is, however, another formant that I have detected (I think), also of
the form -ro but note, without the stress-accent although it is capable of
shifting the stress-accent one syllable to the right when it is added: it
is -*ro, 'part'.

This might be the formant you have identified.

Unless we are dealing with false analogy, the stress-accentual criterion
might help to decide which might be involved.

I do not believe this formant is ordinarily recognized in PIE studies.


***