Re: [tied] Re: rã/râ/ãr/âr versus ar/ra in Romanian

alexandru_mg3 wrote:

>> alex wrote:
>
>>> I will not talk about r. (that is 'too old'),
>>
>> too old= not interesting enough or its reflex is well known ?:-)
>
> No 'too old' means that it passed first to something else rV~Vr
> (please see the messages regarding h1,h2,h3) and than 'some' rV~Vr
> passed later to rã,râ or ra (sorry for my unclear answer)

does this something else exclude that V=â directly? This sound is
perceveid by foreigners as being something betwen "u" and "i"
and -interesting enough- even archaic Latin present this alternance
where the same word was written with "i" or "u". That will lead out the
idea, there has been a sound which was neither "u" nor "i" but something
else.
in:

>>>
>>> Rom. márgine 'edge'
>>> Rom. máre 'big'
>>> Rom. bárdzã 'stork'
>>> Rom. gárd 'fence'
>>
>> That is a matter of stress here. The stressed "a" remained "a", the
>> unstressed "a" changed to "ã" but in some conditions in "â".
>
>
> No, I have talked above Only about stressed á . Please check on your
> side too: we have both cases (as I mentioned) => the source of
> stressed rã/râ/ãr/âr versus stressed ra/ar is caused by the oposition
> between r versus rr in PAlb/Dacian? and next in the Balkan Latin.

ahhmm.. I have to recognise I have trouble to find a stressed "â" now.
At least between almost 300 words which begin with "râ-" there is none
who has the stress on "â".

>
> Please follow the stressed âr/âr/rã/ãr versus stressed ar/ra
> alternance in all Romanian Words (I will add: brád and ráTã too..)
> based on the following timeframes:

brad, ratsa have both a sressed "a" in the first syllable, thus the
quality of "a" remains "a".

>
> --------------------------------
> here ----> we have only PAlb r
> -------------------------------
> 1. rw > rr (PAlb)
> 2. wr > rr (PAlb)
> 3. V-r-V > rr (PAlb)
> -----------------------------------
> 6. Latin rrV => Romanian râ (see Rom. urâ 'to hate')
> 5. Latin initial r- was closed to rr- (see Albanian rr in the Latin
> Loans) => Romanian râ (see râu 'river')
> ----------------------------------------
> 4. V-l-V > r (CommonRomanian)
> -------------------------------------
>
> and you will see that this is the explanation.

> Note: I'm not sure if 3. is applicable for Romanian-Substratum
>
> Marius
>
>
>
> P.S.:
> ======
> 1. We 'cannot remove' brad, gard, bardzã, raTã etc...from 'Our'
> Dacian list.
> 2. If a model didn't fit 'Our above requirement' => so 'very bad' for
> that 'model' -:).
> 3. Please take care, here -:) : at the end everything is a matter of
> faith.

I guess at the end is a matter of demonstration or better said, of the
quality of the demonstration. The 1, 2 & 3 and their output as "rr" in
Alb. should be comleted with the reduction of "rr" to "r" in Rum. Said
as additional info, all the Germans I speak with they told me I have a
very strong "r" in the pronounciation and believe me, I try to reduce
its strongness but it appears it is stil very strong. Secondary, there
appears to be some reflex of Latin "r" which are represented in Alb. as
"ll" and this makes the things a bit more complicated.