Re: [tied] Re: Slavic palatalistions: why /c^/, /c/?

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:57:08 +0000, tgpedersen
<tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:38:41 +0000, tgpedersen
>> <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>>
>> >--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...>
>wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 13:55:13 +0000, tgpedersen
>> >> <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Here's a version with even fewer rules:
>> >>
>> >> But they're all wrong.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Because...?
>>
>> Because the rules you gave were:
>>
>> >PIE > pp-PS
>> >*ai, *oi > *e
>>
>> Obviously wrong. *ai gives /ê/, not /e/, and only after the
>> first palatalzation.
>
>*i, *e, *j palatalise.

What's that to do with the fact that *ai does *not* give
/e/?

>The whole point of the exercise is to "tag"
>the vowels *i and *e with a *j which to simplify the palalisation
>condition (as ' / *j'),

Except that this is demonstrably wrong.

>which has the added affect of distinguishing
>original *e (> *je) from later by-products (here *ê) such that the
>two Slavic palatalisations don't have to be done in any particular
>sequence. You would have noted that if you had taken time to think
>over the proposal, instead of rejecting it for not conforming to the
>traditional scheme.

You mean not conforming to the facts.

>> >pp-PS > p-PS
>> >*V(:) > *jV(:), /V front
>>
>> Wrong as I explained (*ji would have given /i/, not /I/, in
>> OCS).
>
>No you didn't. You explained that *ji would have given /ji/. I
>wonder what you will claim to have explained the next time? I assume
>it occurred to you in the meantime that the /j/ was consumed in the
>process of palatalising the preceding consonant?

No it wasn't. Cf. ORuss. spellings like c^judo, etc.

An easier way to demonstrate that *e and *i never acquired a
j-glide (except in the Anlaut) is the fact that for instance
*te and *ti develop differently from *tj(V). Cf. the verbs
metoN, metes^I (Pol. mioteN, mieciesz) vs. xUtjoN, xUtjes^I
(Pol. chceN, chcesz).


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...