From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 40564
Date: 2005-09-24
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...>
To: "Patrick Ryan" <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: Re[10]: ka and k^a [was: [tied] *kW- "?"]
> At 10:45:03 PM on Friday, September 23, 2005, Patrick Ryan
> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps you are not aware of it, but many systems for
> > phonetic rendition of English have been used in the past
> > besides IPA.
>
> I could hardly fail to be aware of it, since my first
> linguistics textbook was Gleason.
>
> > In those, <æ> was used for the openest English front
> > vowel, as in <hat>;
>
> Which is consistent with IPA usage: that vowel is higher
> than (IPA) [a]. (Gleason in fact explicitly recognizes
> this, classifying his /æ/ as upper low and his /a/ as low.)
***
Patrick:
Now you have confused me.
What I was trying to say is that I believed, based on previous systems of
notation, that [æ] was the most open = lowest vowel in the front series for
any language, and represented the <a> in <hat>.
In the IPA system, there is a vowel [a] which is more open and lower than
[æ]. Even after this discussion, I am not sure if
1) [a] now represents the <a> of <hat>; or
2) [æ] still represents the <a> of <hat> but that there is an even lower =
more open vowel, [a], which, I presume, does not occur in English.
I am still under the impression that the /a/ I use in <hat> is as low = open
as one can go.
> > and <a> was reserved for the central vowel of <father>.
>
> Indeed; with a range from a somewhat centralized [a] all the
> way to [A]. This is perfectly reasonable for phonemic
> transcription at least of U.S. English, which in general
> does not distinguish [a] and [A]; it's less satisfactory
> outside that context, which probably explains why, for
> instance, Bloch and Trager used <a> and <æ> in a manner
> consistent with IPA usage.
***
Patrick:
I guess you can see why I thought Glen had mistakenly notated his
pronunciation; I understood him to be saying that he pronounced the <a> of
<hat> like the <a> in <father>. I presume this latter is now indicated by
_upside-down [a]_. In view of his other ideas, I did not consider this
aberration implausible.
***
>
> Brian
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