[tied] Re: IE thematic presents and the origin of their thematic vo

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:

> > Certainly. If the Ablautend vowel (which I mark as 'a' for the
> > stages before its phonetic alternations became phonemic) had a
> > long version, it would have been preserved as long only when
> > stressed. The unstressed long vowels would have fallen in with
> > the short ones. Later, any unstressed Ablautend vowels became o-
> > timbre. So, by those rules, the alternation should be one
> > of /é:/ vs. /o/.
>
> In the model that assumes "true long vowels" for (pre-)PIE, the
> shortening in pretonic positions leaves a short but full vowel
> which, by virtue of being full, attracts the accent and retains its
> e-timbre (see below).

But if "true long vowels" are shortened when atonic, shouldn't they
then be considered the same as other short atonic vowels?

What would cause the supposed "accent attraction"?

> > How is the accentuation secondary there? I'm having trouble
> > understanding this.
>
> Because of a pre-PIE rule shifting the accent, if originally
> suffixal, to any pretonic full vowel.

Again, what kind of phonological processes, do you think, would cause
such a rule to occur (assuming that it did indeed occur)?

> > Regarding Gk. _kó:pe:_ 'handle', it seems that this is a rather
> > late formation and analogical to the typical pattern of CoC(C)é:
> > (e.g. _poté:_ 'flight'). The initial accent, in my opinion,
> > reflects its lateness.
>
> Why should it reflect any such thing? And why do we also have
> initial accent in long-grade causatives like *swó:p-je/o- vs.
> the "normal" type (*mon-éje-)?

Is there a verb _sva:pjati_ in Vedic?

- Rob