Re: [tied] Re: 'Intrusive' phonemes in languages

From: glen gordon
Message: 39950
Date: 2005-09-12

Lars:
> Well ... I'd rather say that "e instable" is mute
> when not handy for euphony, for instance when
> avoiding three or more consonants meeting:

Actually, it has more to do with accent. I said
earlier that my accent is based on European French.

I don't have a Quebecois twang and I find that it's
harder to mimick. It's been noted in general that
European French tends to continue to pronounce "mute
e" slightly with a quick schwa while North American
French in all has taken a different turn and cut
down syllables. I've simply aped the European pattern
after watching hours and hours of TV5 :)

So in regards to "quatre", the Europeans will tend
to say /katR&/. In this specific word, the schwa would
be voiceless. It would be difficult to distinguish
the schwa from the preceding uvular r here but it's
more perceptable in the word "donne" /dOn&/. In North
American French, particularly with an Acadian twang,
the norm is /kAt/ and /dOn/.


> "quatr-& francs", "il n'exist-& pas", but "quatr-
> euros".

Yes, it's true that in this case you have /kat(R) üRo/
simply because of the eliding before a vowel-initial
word. When I pronounce it, I think I drop the first
uvular R (for ease of pronunciation by way of
haplology methinks). It would be /kAt üro/ in NA
style.


> You find the same phenomenon in the combination
> a-t-il = has he, where a -t is used in analogy
> with other similar combinations.

Actually it's an historical artifact. The -t- is
from the original 3ps termination of the Latin verb
that is no longer pronounced in French (eg: /Il
pleut/ "It's raining" => /i(l) plö/, in contrast
with, /A-t-il plu?/ "Did it rain?" => /ati(l) plü/)


> I've always considered this -t- the only survivor of
> 3rd sing -t in Romance languages. Perhaps I am
> wrong?

You are correct, sir.


= gLeN


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