Re: [tied] *-je/o- [was: IE thematic presents...]

From: tgpedersen
Message: 39941
Date: 2005-09-12

>
> So, basically, I'm saying that maybe you were right
> about the idea of a denominal origin of the causative
> from an *o-grade thematic stem. In fact, if we again
> interpret *-ye/o- as possessive, *mon-eye- can be
> understood as coming from earlier verb stem *mané-y&-
> (derived by accent displacement from the noun phrase
> *man&-y&- "one having [-y&] (something) thought of
> [man&-]". That sounds like a causative to me.
>

And then you have to slap person and number endings on that. Sorry,
you can't do that. There's no parallel anywhere. You need another
suffix in order to turn your purported nominal or adjectival stem
into a verbal stem. But there is no such suffix to be seen anywhere.

The only way I know of that a language can invent new 'stem
extensions' like *-ye/o- or *-sk^e/o- is by the one taken by the
standard example, Romance future and conditional, namely from 'verb
root + ending' to the periphrastic construction 'verb root + non-
finitising suffix' followed by 'auxilliary verb root + ending' (in
casu 'ama-re habe-o'), to the univerbated (made into one word) 'verb
root + non-finitising suffix + auxilliary verb root + ending (in
casu 'ama-r-ai'; this example stinks, since there's no way to
separate -ai into stem and ending, like one should).

As I said, I can't see any other way that a verbal so-called stem
extension can come into existence. If anyone else can, please object.

In other words, in a finite verb, if we are looking at 'verb stem +
verb stem extension + ending' we must try to analyse it as 'verb
root + non-finitising suffix + auxilliary verb root + ending', that
is, we must solve an 'equation' of the type 'verb stem extension'
= 'non-finite suffix + auxilliary verb stem'

(
Non-finite = infinitives, gerunds, participles
Non-finitising suffix = infinitive, gerund, or participle suffix.
)

And that goes for both *-ye/o- and *-sk^e/o- too. We must find a non-
finite suffix plus aux. verb root in them.

Perhaps we might in this case dispense with finding the former if
PIE formed verbal nouns by ablaut. That idea has the advantage of
relating the o-grade stem of *-ye/o- and *-sk^e/o- derivatives to
the deverbal nouns of the *tómos/*tomós type.


Torsten