Re: [tied] Root of "marten," "sable"

From: C. Darwin Goranson
Message: 39625
Date: 2005-08-15

Um, sorry about creating a zombie thread again, but I located more
relevant information on the topic, and it still holds deep curiosity
for me.

>"Joao S. Lopes" wrote: Germanic *marthuz could be cognate of *brudiz
"bride", from *mer- "young woman, girl, maiden".
> In many languages the mustelids have names meaning "little lady", as
Portuguese doninha "weasel", litterally diminutive of dona "lady".

Ah, like Italian donnola or Frence belette, both for weasel? In
that case, it that because little girls wore their fur, or were the
creatures looked upon as daughters/little girls in some way?
Also, I've noted a darker possible origin, though as usual, I may
be far off the mark. Perhaps there is an affinity of marten/
Mår(Norwegian)/ Marder (German) with murder/ mörthr (Norse)/ maurthr
(Gothic, and a PIE root of *mrt (die/death).

>As well, the word "ermine," I've heard, could arise from "mus
>Armenius" or from a word akin to the Lithuanian "sarmuo~" and a
>relative of the English "hoary," with a PIE root as "gray."
For "ermine," I found the suggested alternative path to Armenian
mouse (which in itself founds a bit arbitrary - why Armenian?). Ermine
arose from Old French "hermine," which in turn was influenced by the
Latin derivatives "ermin" and "hermin" (Armenian). A possible
unaffected version might be glipsed in the Rhaeto-Romantic "carmún" or
Lithuanian "šarmuõ" (also spelled "šermuõ"), both meaning "weasel".
From there, the dictionary suggests a possible relationship with Old
High German "hornunc" (February), Old Norse "hjarn" (frozen snow), and
Lithuanian "širvas" (gray), with a PIE root of *kas (meaning gray or
white). Again, though, I think such a complex route possible because
of the arbitrary reference to Armenia.
(Note: I have nothing against Armenians! In fact, one of my
favourite composers, Aram Khachaturian, was Armenian)