Re: [tied] Alb. djathtë -- Where does the come from? (the sol

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:

> alex wrote:
>
> > for 1: if you mean with "z" the sonor "s" then I guess the
> > intermediary *z there is a wrong postulate. The "gj" is to
> > explain other way, via an another "altered" sound, but not
> > from a clear "z" as in Slavic "za".
>
> Whatever it was, it was the voiced counterpart of *s. If you know
> the phonetic details, o sage, please enlighten us.

I don't sustain I know them, I just advance a supposition which
appears to be logical. I guess we have the "first palatalisation"
of "s" in Albanian when followed by palatal vowels and a secondary
palatalisation of "s" which became generalised, regardless what kind
of vowel followed, the rulle known as s > sh.

Thus, in that time, Alb. have had an "sh" which was the result of sV
where V= palatal; of course, there has been stil the unvoices
clear "s" when the following vowel was a non palatal one.
Before any "s" became "sh" in Alb, the older "sh" became "gj" in
palatal medium due the yotacisation of "e" to "ie". I gues the change
should be seen as follow:
se > she > shje > gje

the "je" changed to "ja" later under the influence of the next vowel.
This phonetic change is not present in Alb. only but in Rom. as well.
the confusion of "sh" with "j" ( consonantal j, the one alike to "gj")
is present in Rom. as well, where I have to say, just in a special
phonetical medium.

>
> > for 2: s > sh regardless if the following vowel was stressed or
> > not, see the final "sh" or Latin loans (shálë, shékull,
> > shénjë)
>
> These Latin words were borrowed after the operation of the voicing
> rule.
> It was no longer productive, so new loans were exempt from it. Most
> inherited _initial_ *s's yield Mod.Alb. <gj-> precisely because of
> the Proto-Albanian preference for word-initial stress.
>
> Piotr

Exactly what I said before. I am glad we have a common point of view
here.
Alex