Re: [tied] Slavic accentology

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:19:46 +0200 (CEST), mkapovic@...
wrote:

>>>> On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 23:36:52 +0200, Miguel Carrasquer
>>>> <mcv@...> wrote:
>
>>>a. p. b imperfect,
>>
>> Hmm, I overlooked this one. Can you give me the details?
>
>It's basically the same as the present tense. In Croatian, the
>accentuation of the imperfect is in accord with that of the present, thus:
>no``si:m "I carry" - no``s^a:h (b), lo`vi:m "I catch" ~ lo`vlja:h (c).

OK.

>>>a. p. b long adjectives and ordinal numbers,
>>
>> I don't think this has anything to do with Stang's law, at
>> least nothing to do with circumflex intonation. The
>> distribution is:
>>
>> ap a: by"strU by"stra by"stro
>> by"strU-jI by"stra-ja by"stro-je
>> ap b: bê'lU bêlá bêló
>> bê'lU-jI bê'la-ja bê'lo-je
>> ap c: môldU moldá môldo
>> moldÚ-jI moldá-ja moldó-je
>>
>> Russian has no contraction (belaja > belâ) in the nominative
>> forms, but the stress is retracted nevertheless.
>
>No contraction in N. sg. you mean? Anyway, I do not insist that the
>forming of the neo-acute fixed root stress a. p. b is strictly do to
>retraction from the inner long falling syllable. I think there were other
>factors there as well.
>
>>>*volja-type nouns,
>>
>> Stang's solution is to derive these from a.p. b volI'-ja >
>> vòl(I)ja > vòlja.
>
>That is surely wrong. Many Slavic languages clearly distinguish between
>*-ja and *-Ija suffixes.

Yes, as Stang recognizes, but the a.p. b words in -Ija seem
to be missing, and in its stead we find the
volja/c^as^c^a-words.

>>I'm not sure if that is "old" a.p. b
>> (better said, class II < PIE -íyah2) or "new" a.p. b (by
>> Dybo's law). I still have some more thinking to do about
>> the vòlja-type.
>
>I will talk about it in Zagreb. Maybe it will be useful for you :)

Absolutely.

>>>G. pl. of a. p. b with the acute in the middle syllable etc.
>>
>> That is retraction of the stress from weak yers, which I
>> excluded from Stang's law.
>
>I was thinking on Croat. lo`pata "shovel" - G. pl. lo``pa:ta:

Noted.

> But I don't think it has anything to do with length. The
>> jé-, né-, dé-verbs have an etymologically short thematic
>> vowel.
>
>I agree.
>
>>The vowel of the i:-stems is long, but that's
>> precisely where Stang's law does *not* always work (Dybo's
>> *loz^í:tI, *loz^í:te).
>
>Hm lo`z^i:m is (c) in my language.

It's also c in Russian, but Zaliznjak marks it as "sledy b".
If the paradigm was indeed theme-stressed, the tendency in
the long run would be for it to adapt to the a.p. c paradigm
in the 1sg. (and 2pl.) as well.

>>In the peró-group, retraction of the
>> stress in the plural also has nothing to do with length, as
>> I don't believe everything here is analogical after the
>> loc.pl.
>
>I think that's a completely different process having nothing to do with
>Stang.

Well, what I noticed was that we have a retraction from
middle syllables in the theme-stressed verbs (leaving only
the 1sg. end-stressed), while the theme-stressed nouns
(essentially the oxytone o-stem neuters, the "peró-group"),
show retraction in the plural, where, unlike in the
singular, we have a number of oblique cases (dat pl, loc pl)
which were stressed on a medial syllable. My suggestion is
that both phenomena are related by a simple soundlaw which
retracts theme-stress when not in the final syllable.

The new mobility in the peró-group is what I think prevented
retraction of the stress in a word like vêdró, pl. vê'dra.
In the verbs, opposition would only have come from the 1sg.,
so there a (non-Hirt) acute in the root *did* result in
transfer to a.p. a (e.g. bê"gnoNti: bê"gnoN < *bêgnóN, the
rest already barytone).

>> Clearly, length played an important part in late Common
>> Slavic accentological developments (in part already
>> dialectal), and the facts are difficult to sort out.
>>
>> But I don't think length played any role in the
>> establishment of the neo-mobile verbal and nominal paradigms
>> (pisjóN, písjetI; peró, pl. [pèra], pèromU).
>
>I agree for pe`ra, but I wouldn't just exclude the possibility of van
>Wijk's law in pi~s^etI (anyhow, if -e- had been lengthened by van Wijk, I
>believe it was again shortened after as shown by Croat. ho``tjes^ with a
>short -e-).

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...