Re: [tied] Re: Middle Voice

----- Original Message -----

From: Richard Wordingham

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 5:54 PM

Subject: [tied] Re: Middle Voice

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@......> wrote:
> I am calling on you various scholars to please help me out with a
difficulty I have regarding Greek and Sanskrit grammar.
> I don't really understand the meaning of the "middle" voice.

The middle is definitely not the same as a reflexive, unless you would
count 'He baked himself a cake' as reflexive.

***

Patrick:

 

No, not a reflexive, but certainly an active.

***

The textbook explanation of its meaning is that the action affects the
doer, e.g. for his own benefit.  The second point is that the middle
does not carry the active / passive distinction, which is where the
following examples are relevant:

> Many people who explain the middle voice to English speakers use
examples such as "the cake bakes in the oven", "his book sold a
thousand copies", and the like.  But to me such expressions are really
passive, i.e. the cake is being baked (by the baker) in the oven, and
a thousand copies of the book were sold.

The lack of an active/passive contrast is better seen in English in
infinitives and gerunds (also in participles), as in a traditional fox
hunt needing hounds for hunting (active meaning) and foxes for hunting
(passive meaning).

***

Patrick:

 

Sorry, just cannot buy that. Though there may be some overlap, infinitives and gerunds, etc. _can_ be characterized as active, passive, or even reflexive.

 

I think you mean to say that they do not have _tense_ not _voice_.

***

> Is this really how the middle was used in Greek and Sanskrit?

No.

The best example is in the use of the middle for fitting out one's own
warship - one's life will depend on how well it is done - as opposed
to the active for fitting it out for someone else.

***

Patrick:

 

It is obvious that Greek used the middle (originally reflexive) in the same sloppy way in which it is used in many modern IE-derived languages. What you have been describing is nothing more than a beneficial interest in the outcome of an action which can be active or passive voice.

***

 

> Furthermore, Greek verbs in the present and imperfect of the middle
 voice are identical to the same tenses of the passive voice - did
Greek really distinguish middle from passive?

Yes, though there are a good many instances where the middle was used
when one would expect the passive.

A noteworthy feature is that many Greek verbs have an active in the
present, but regularly use the middle in the perfect or future.  I
believe the reasons are different.

In Classical Sanskrit, the active and the middle have the same
meaning, and there is a separate derived stem for the passive.  Vedic
Sanskrit shows some traces of a distinction in meaning, along the
Greek lines of 'doing something for oneself'.

Richard.




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