Re: The Vlach Connection

From: george knysh
Message: 37618
Date: 2005-05-05

--- alex <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
> I agree with you that from the testimonies we have
> we can considerate as
> sure the time of IX-XII century as being the time
> they begin to spread.
> This "spreading" is not only in the north (due their
> location today) but
> in south too. Is the same time (XI century) the
> bizantins reamarque them
> as infiltrating South of Danube (see Kekaumenos).

****GK: Why do you say "infiltrating"? Kekaumenos
merely notes them as present, as far as I remember.***

> Apparently until that
> point ( IX-X century) they have been somewhere
> around "Dun�re" (the
> native word for Danubius, word which is not borrowed
> neither from Latins
> , nor from Slavs nor from "Proto-Albanian"). North
> or South of Danube,
> it cannot be said precisely, but let us say "around"
> Danubius.

*****GK: This corresponds (partly) with the Old
Ukrainian Chronicle. The Vlachs invade the territory
of the "Danubian Slavs" (we won't get into the errors
of ethnic identification) who live "along the Danube"
in "Hungary" (the Hungarian state of 1116) and
"Bulgaria" (that Danube to Haemus entity I mentioned
before). The Chronicle does not note the latter as
being displaced by the incoming Bulgars.*****

> opiniopn that they infiltrating in the Bizantine
> Empire in the XI
> century fits with the last major event in ethnical
> complexus of
> Panono-Carpato-Balkanik area. And this was the
> arrival of the
> Hungarians, besser said, the change of the "action
> direction" of the
> Hungarians after they have been defeated by Otto in
> the X century.
> Apparently the historical events fit with my idea
> since the Hungarians
> changed their conquest direction from West to East
> and they begun to
> attaque the population who have been in their
> eastern parts after 955.

*****GK: The Hungarians also attacked South before
their defeat by Otto. *****

> Presuming they needed 20.30 years ro regenerate
> their armies, we can say
> that immediately they have been able to fight again,
> they attaqued the
> regions east of them and the vlachs have been
> recoreded as entering the
> Bizantine Empire; thus very probable the
> "Aromanians" are in fact just
> PanonoRomanians who have been drove out by
> Hungarians.

*****GK: This is where we differ. The Kyivan Chronicle
accepts the continuity of the Vlach presence in
Bulgaria, but denies it in Hungary, suggesting that
they were expelled in Avar times (around 610/630). Of
course at that point Byzantine power collapsed as far
south as Greece, so they would not have noticed
"infiltrators" in more northern areas other than the
major players.*****

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