[tied] Re: Of Vennemann's proposals

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
wrote:

> tgpedersen wrote:
> >
> >>but the other objections remain valid (no early attestation, a
> >>different attested name in the Middle Ages, a convincing modern
> >
> > etymology).
> >
> >
> > 'convincing' is the operative word here. There's no doubt a

linguist

> > should be convinced be a convincing etymology. Or are you trying

to

> > sneak a circular faith-based judgment in the back door so that

you can

> > use it as a standard argument against e.g. a proposed

Nordwestblock

> > pedigree for late-documented words in Germanic?
>
> No, I have no such ambition. I don't wish to make it an axiom that

any

> word attested only in recent times must be of recent origin

(although

> the lack of such attestation should always make one cautious

rather than

> serve as an excuse for giving free rein to one's fertile

imagination:

> "No evidence? Hurrah! Anything goes!"). No. I simply mean that in

view

> of the tangible evidence of the mill's having been owned by the

nearby

> Cistercian monastery the etymology of Abtsmühle and Abtsbach is
> plausible and "convincing" in the most ordinary sense of the word.

Given

> (1) the complete absence of early attestation of "Aps" vel sim. in

the

> area, and (2) the documented early existence of a different name

for the

> same object, the conclusion is that the hydronym in question isn't
> likely to be old and the proposed transparent etymology is almost
> certainly correct. It's still a hypothesis, of course, but a very

solid

> one in comparison with the Illyrian/Old European etymology, which

was

> based on nothing at all except the modern form of the name and its
> superficial similarity to other "Apses" elsewhere.
>
> Incidentally, many such stories have been reported in recent

toponymic

> literature. Babik's book alone contains numerous other examples

where

> the historical evidence has been ignored or mishandled. This

doesn't

> mean that the "Old European" school is wrong about everything, but

it

> does mean that their methodological standards leave a lot to be

desired.

>

In this case, I agree. The evidence favors the Abtsbach solution.

Torsten