Re: [tied] Thracian place-names

From: george knysh
Message: 37055
Date: 2005-04-11

--- Michael Smith <mytoyneighborhood@...>
wrote:
>
> Are there any Thracian place-names or river
> names in the area of
> modern Ukraine that could support a Thracian
> presence there in the 8th
> century B.C.? I want to know if there's any
> evidence of Thracian
> speech among the Cimmerians.
>
> -Michael

****GK: A number of hydronyms suggest the presence of
a "Thrakoid" population east and north of the Dacians
in Cimmerian and Scythian times.(The issue of toponyms
has not been much developed).Whether this involves the
actual Cimmerians is unclear, and perhaps doubtful
(two names of Cimmerian kings are evidently Iranic).
But Cimmerians and Scythians surely inherited a
hydronymy which showed "Thrakoid" forms, and which
seems to have extended considerably to the east. The
Greek "Tanais" for Don is now viewed by Ukrainian
linguists as perhaps more "Thrakoid" than Iranic,
since the Slavic pronunciation (short o) would more
likely have developed from a short "a" than a long
"a". There is also an ancient river name in the Crimea
("Putalitsa") which has Thracian affinities
(Pautalia). As mentioned before, the earliest
designation of the Dnipro ("Borysthenes")seems to have
been borrowed by the Greeks from a Thrakoid rather
than from an Iranic speech. From a population, also,
which used "t" rather than "d" in many instances.
There are a number of other "Thrakoid" hydronyms
reflective of ancient times. Some smaller rivers of
the Ros' basin for instance. Possibly the Herodotan
"Gerrhos" (now the Desna). The "Ibr", which connects
to the Teteriv west of Kyiv. And of course the
Dnister, also borrowed from a Thrakoid rather than
Iranic speech. The picture which emerges is that much
of the territory of Ukraine south of the forest zone
may have been inhabited by a Thrakoid population in
pre-Cimmerian times. Largely pushed out of the lands
east of the Dnipro by the Cimmerians, who subsequently
fused to some extent with the incoming Scythians
(leaving a large amount of Iranic hydronyms there),
this Thrakoid population concentrated west of the
Dnipro and was considered politically "Scythian" in
the 7th-3rd c. BC. With the collapse of Scythia under
Sarmatian assaults, many of these Thrakoid "Scythians"
may have migrated south of the Danube, into "Scythia
minor", an area akin to them in speech. The pockets
left behind were eventually Slavonized, as were their
river names.******
>
>
>
>



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/