Re: [tied] IE Pots and Pans (Was: Back to Slava)

From: Miguel Carrasquer
Message: 36362
Date: 2005-02-17

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:50:56 +0100, Piotr Gasiorowski
<gpiotr@...> wrote:

>On 05-02-17 00:05, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
>> What was Pinault's law again?
>In a nutshell, the syllabification of postconsonantal laryngeals with a
>following *j and their coalescence with it, as in *krewh2-jo- > *krewjo-.
>> But you know what I think of Caland-variants: they're nothing but
>> **-n- palatalized (*-y-, *-i-), labialized (*-m-, *-w-, *-u-) or
>> plain (*-n-, *-r-).
>I know. However, I think Jens's explanation is more convincing -- not
>without its little problems, to be sure, but I understand that it's
>still work in progress. Both models share the merit of invoking just
>phonetics and no magic, but Jens stays closer to orthodoxy by making
>fewer assumptions about pre-PIE, which is the main reason for my current
>> But Caland aside, I think that an /i/ was also present in the
>> essive/fientive suffix *-eh1- (*-eh1i-). I see no other way to
>> explain the Baltic and Slavic reflexes /e:/ < *-eh1- (aorist,
>> infinitive), /i/ < *-h1i- (Baltic present) /i:/ < *-eih1- (Slavic
>> present).
>Do you see any difficulties with *-eh1-/*-h1-je/o- outside Balto-Slavic?

Yes. Latin and Celtic have *-eh1ye- (presumably *-éh1ye-),
which is consistent with early thematization of full grade
*-éh1i-. Germanic probably reflects the same thing.

Greek (-eo:, -eeis, -eei, -eomen, -eete, -eousi, besides
Aeolic -e:mi) is also a problem, certainly now that you've
brought up Pinault's law, which I suppose excludes the
possibility of bhil-h1-jó: > philéo:. Since Aeolic suggests
the paradigm was athematic in pre-Greek anyway, we can
depart from the Balto-Slavic situation (ath. *-éih1-mi,
*-éih1-si, *-éih1-ti, *-h1i-mén, *-&1-té, *-h1y-énti),
thematized late to *-éh1i-o: > *-éjo:, *-éje(s)i, *-éjet;
*-&1-ómen, *-&1-éte, *-&1-ónti > -eo:, -eei+s, -ee+i;
-eomen, -eete, *-eonsi.

Vedic apaprently thematized the zero grade form of the 1/3
plural: *-h1i-é- > -(:)yá-.

Miguel Carrasquer Vidal