Re: [tied] Re: Latin ibex akin to Portuguese bezerro?

From: Mate Kapovic
Message: 35904
Date: 2005-01-15

----- Original Message -----
From: "alex" <alxmoeller@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Latin ibex akin to Portuguese bezerro?


>
> Mate Kapovic wrote:
>>> I said just there is the word "bâc" without pointing to its
>>> etymology. Since you say so sure on you "loan from Slavic", what
>>> makes this word so Slavic? Its presence in South Slavic or is there
>>> anything special for classifying this word as "slavic" ?
>>
>> Slavic *byk7 or *b7k7 is actually a pan-Slavic word. Since Romanian
>> has loads of Slavic words and since the Romanian word fits in here
>> both semantically and phonetically, I see no problem in it being a
>> Slavic loanword into Romanian.
>> Skok actually adduces "bic" as a Rom. loanword from Slavic *byk7. The
>> word is also loaned into Hungarian (bika).
>>
>> Mate
>
> just fine. Then you will be able to explain then the change of "i" to "â"
> in this case. I am not aware of any Slavic "y" becoming "â" in Rom. Since
> phoneticaly there it cannot be explained via Slavic "y" or "i", then the
> statements as "is a panslavic one", "has loans from Slavic" have no value.
> My assumption the word is not of Slavic origin is founded on the
> regionalism "bic" which means "ox" and _it is_ the Slavic "bik". So, once
> we have "bic" and once we have "bâc", both means "ox". The word with "â"
> speaks for an older word, the form with "i" appears to be a recently one.

Well, you might have noticed that I also mentioned the Slavic variant *b7k7
as well, with a yor, no with a yeri. As somebody wrote, "bic" indeed seems
like a loanword from Hungarian actually, but "bâc" could be from Slavic
*b7k7 just the same if I am not mistaking.

Mate