Re: Alb. aj possible origins?

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I. > Some examples : Old Alb. PAlb.

> Alb. lajthi 'hazel nut' < *l.uanj.thi < *l.uanj.thi < *(a)

l.uanj.tsja
[AK]
False etymology.
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I didn't want to insist more on my etymology but I don't see any
proof here that my derivation is wrong (only afirmations regarding
this). I think that the existing pairs :
Rom. alunitsa 'hazel nut' - Alb. lajthi 'id'
Rom. alunitsa 'wart' - Alb. lyth 'id'
are more than a simple coincidence.


Also I didn't see a full derivation from a PIE form regarding the
derivation that you or Piotr proposed that includes also Lith and/or
Slavic forms.


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II. Alb. < laj> is derived from suffixed o-grade form *lou-nyo >
PAlb. lanj of PIE verb root *leu(H)- `to wash' (*au & *ou >
Alb. /a/),
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Only a little detail here: I think that PAlb form *launja that I
proposed fits better because *au was still *au in Proto-Albanian.
au > a is a late transformation in Albanian around 900-1000 AC.


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III.

> In same way was created Alb. <qaj> (standard and Tosk form), PAlb.
> <klanj>, from o-grade form *k^lou-nyo or (as per Beekes *k^leH2u-
> nyo) > PAlb. klanj (attested also in Illyrian name

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PAlb. *klaunja fits better. Because au was still there in PAlb
time.
Also I think that Pokorny root *kel-6 fits better for the origin
of 'qaj' -> PIE *kel-ou-n-yo (from kel-6) > *PAlb *(s)k(e)lau-nj-a

(As I presented an Balkanika) Alb. 'qaj' 'to cry, to weep' and
Rom 'scheuna' 'to cry, to weep especially for dogs and wolfs'
represent (in my opinion) 2 forms of the same PAlb (Dacian?) common
word *(s)k(e)launja

The derivations are the following:

For Albanian:
--------------
PIE *kel-ou-n-yo (from kel-6) > *PAlb *(s)k(e)lau-nj-a > PAlb.
*klaunja > kl'aunj > qanj > qaj

For Romanian:
--------------
PIE *kel-ou-n-yo (from kel-6) > *PAlb *(s)k(e)lau-nj-a > PAlb.
*sklaunja > Old. Rom. skl'auna > scheuna

So Rom 'scheuna' and Alb. 'qaj' represent the same Common Word
PAlb (Dacian?): *(s)k(e)launja

See also Lith. sk~aliju `fortgesetzt bark, bay, anschlagen' as
cognate with PAlb (Dacian?): *(s)k(e)launja

If Somebody could add more feedback regarding the Lith. sk~aliju
plaese do it.



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IV. > > Alb. shaj 'to insult' < *sh.aunj < *sh.aunj.a <

> *s.adunj.a
>
> [AK]
> False etymology. Albanian <shaj> is similar to Lat. <insilio> from
> in + salio and I see no reason to not derive it from *sal-yo.

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First a PAlb *sadunja doesn't raise any issue to obtain 'shaj'
(especially when Rom. 'sudui' is present today in Romanian).

Regarding *sal-yo the big issue is regarding the following
question: Where the accent failed in *sal-yo?.
I doubts that the accent could be on '-yo. In my opinion the
accent has to be on a -> s'alyo. And in this case your derivation has
an important issue:

Initial stressed *sa/*se gives *gj in Albanian (gjashtë, gjarpër).

For this reason (if inherited as both of us thinking) the
Albanian 'shaj' is more probable to be considered having at his
origin more syllables in order that the accent can failed not on the
first one.
If we look at Romanian 'sudui' the accent fits very well. *su is
not accented. So *sadunja/ *sudunja didn't have the accent on
*sa/*su. As I know in Alb. 'shaj' the accent is not on sa- also.


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V. [AK]

> I think it's a Germanic loan, if we take into consideration Geg

form

> <bagël>

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Rosetti/Orel consider PAlb *bal(e)ga (present also in Romanian
as 'balega') being an substratual / inherited word.


Only the Best,
Marius






--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<a_konushevci@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
> >
> > Some examples : Old Alb. PAlb.
> > Alb. lajthi 'hazel nut' < *l.uanj.thi < *l.uanj.thi < *(a)
> l.uanj.tsja
>
> [AK]
> False etymology.
>
> > Alb. shaj 'to insult' < *sh.aunj < *sh.aunj.a <
> *s.adunj.a
>
> [AK]
> False etymology. Albanian <shaj> is similar to Lat. <insilio> from
> in + salio and I see no reason to not derive it from *sal-yo.
>
> > Alb. laj 'to wash' < l.aun < *l.aunj.a <

l.aunj.a

>
> [AK]
> Alb. < laj> is derived from suffixed o-grade form *lou-nyo > PAlb.
> lanj of PIE verb root *leu(H)- `to wash' (*au & *ou > Alb. /a/),
> comparable with Greek <louein> `to wash', Lat. <lavere>, Germanic
> <laugo:(OE leag > lye) from suffixed form *lou-ka); lather < *lou-
> tro.
>
> > Alb. qaj 'to cry' < kl.aunj < *kl.aunj.a < k(e)
> l.aunj.a
>
> [AK]
> In same way was created Alb. <qaj> (standard and Tosk form), PAlb.
> <klanj>, from o-grade form *k^lou-nyo or (as per Beekes *k^leH2u-
> nyo) > PAlb. klanj (attested also in Illyrian name
> Vescleves `(person with) good fame, name') of PIE verb root *k^leu-
> `to hear'.
>
> > Alb. shajtoj < Lat. sagitta:re?
>
> [AK]
> Correct.
>
> > Alb. gjaj 'to resemble' < ?
> > Alb. maj 'to fatten' < ?
>
> [AK]
> Same formation we have also in adjective root *mad- `fat, weel-fed'
> that yields Alb. <maj> `to feed' from PAlb. <manj> and this from

PIE

> *mad-nyo:. Other interestind derivative is <mazë> `cream' from *mad-
> ya: (Pokorny, *mad-, 694-695).
>
> > Alb. mbaj 'to carry' < ?
> Alb. <mbaj-1> is hard to explain, for, there are all chances that

we

> have the verb from very different origin. <mbaj> `to feed, respect'
> is secondary form of Tosk dialect of the verb <maj> (see above).
> <mbaj-2> `carry', probably is derived from preffixed form of o-

grade

> form of verb root *bher- `to carry': *H1en + bhor-nyo > nbanj >
> mbanj > mbaj. <mbaj-3> `to keep, hold, comport', intr. <mbahem> `to
> be keeped, holded, comported', infinitive <m'u mbajtë> `to hold,
> comport' , to my view, is derived from suffixed noun root *bak-

(cf.

> Lat. <baculum> `walking stick, rod'; Greek <baktron> `staff').
>
> > Alb. ndaj 'towards' < ?
>
> [AK]
> <ndaj> `towards' is derived from prefixed locative *ani > nd- + ani
> > ndanj > ndaj (Jokl).
>
> > Alb. ndaj 'to cut' < ?
>
> [AK]
> <ndaj> `to divide', also dialectal form <daj> is derived from zero-
> grade form *dH2- of PIE verb *da:-, oldest from *deH2- `to divide',
> suffixed in –nyo (see Pokorny *da:-, *dH- 175).
>
> > Alb. ngaj 'to run' < ?
> Alb. <ngaj> `to run', inchoative verb <ngah> is derived by Beekes
> from *gWm.-sko, so <nganj> from *gWm.-nyo (*m. > Alb. /a/).
>
> > More recent sources are :
> > Alb. -ajk < OldAlb. -alk < PAlb -alk
> > ----------------------------------------
> > Ex: ajkë < OldAlb. alkë < PAlb -alka
> >
> > Alb. -ajg < OldAlb. -alg < PAlb -alg
> > ----------------------------------------
> > bajgë < OldAlb. balgë < PAlb *balega
>
> [AK]
> I think it's a Germanic loan, if we take into consideration Geg

form

> <bagël>
>
> > But not : jt < lt ( balta remain balta
> > naltë(var.lartë) remain naltë)
> > so there is no reason to say that we can have also
> >
> jth < lth
> [AK]
> Discussed at length in Cybalist and Balkanika.
>
> >
> > More recent we have also:
> > Alb aj < Old Alb al'i < PAlb ali
> > -------------------------------------------
> > Ex: aj < Old Alb al'i(u) < Lat. alium
> > faj < Old Ald fal'j(a) < Lat. *fallia
> [AK]
> Correct.
> >
> > Any feedback?
>
> [AK]
> Some words are treated at length in Cybalist, like <gjaj>.
>
> > Best Regards,
> > marius
>
> Konushevci