Re: Alternance a-u in Romanian [...]

One more argument here regarding:

"[Hun.] -alom (or: -V+lVm) has been kept [in Rom.] (as -almã"

I don't know in Romanian any '-alom' in Romanian or something
similar that became 'alma' but for sure the insertion of a vowel
beween a consonant cluster ('lm' in this case) is something specific
to Hungarian loanwords (see Hungarian form 'kereszteny' (sorry if my
spelling is wrong) for Christianus ).

So kr loaned as ker in Hungarian
lm loaned as lom in Hungarian

Best Regards,
Marius

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
>
> " The verb <a suduí> [su-du-'i] "to swear at, scold, curse"
> is a Hungarian loanword <szid-> [sid]. Its reflex, as a
> noun, <sudalmã> [su-'dal-m&] is even more transparent: Hung.
> <szidalom> ['sid-O-lom]. Here, even the Hung. suffix
> -alom (or: -V+lVm) has been kept (as -almã, that in
> Romanian has no significance, except for the final -ã
> showing it is a feminine noun)."
>
> I know that the proposed etymology in DEX for sudui is
> Magh. 'szidni' and for Rom. 'sudalma' is Magh. 'szidalom'. But I
> have checked further with some of my Hungarian friends and 'szidni'
> and 'szidalom' have an uncertain etymology in Hungarian

dictionaries.

> For sure both of them are not Uro-Altaic inherited word. So the
> question is : From where they are?
> Next the derivation of 'sudui'/'shaj' from a common PAlb *sadunja
> or *swadunja don't raised any (derivation) problem in my opinion so
> magyar 'szidni' could in fact be very well a loan from Old Romanian.
> Also as Abdullah indicated we have a word 'shamë' in Albanian

that

> could be very well common with Romanian 'sudalma' from a PAlb
> *swadalma.
> Viewing this match between Romanian and Albanian forms that are
> very old (s / sh , disparition of intervocalic d ) much older than
> the Hungarian arrival in Pannonia and adding to this that the
> Hungarian words are not inherited words in Hungarian but of unsure
> etymology it is very probable that both Hungarian words are loans
> from Romanian.
>
> Best Regards,
> Marius
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tolgs001" <st-george@...> wrote:
> >
> > alexandru_mg3@ wrote:
> >
> > > 'Maris'/'Muresh'
> >
> > Romanian Mures ['mureS] must've had an intermediary with
> > ['mo-] in order to turn ['mu-]. In contrast with the other
> > hydronym, Mara ['mara], in the Northern province of Maramures,
> > whose Southern part belongs to Romania and whose Northern
> > part to Ukraine (and whose local/regional name in Romanian
> > is Maramurãs [mara'mur&S] and in Hungarian Maramaros
> > ['ma:-rO-mO-roS]).
> >
> > So, Mara alone and Mara in MaramureS/MaramurãS haven't
> > changed to *Mura, yet ancient Marisia has. (We don't know
> > the exact pronunciation, by the autochtonous population,
> > for Marisia. This is only the rendition by ancient
> > chroniclers or geographers.)
> >
> > > 'sudui'/'shaj'?
> >
> > The verb <a suduí> [su-du-'i] "to swear at, scold, curse"
> > is a Hungarian loanword <szid-> [sid]. Its reflex, as a
> > noun, <sudalmã> [su-'dal-m&] is even more transparent: Hung.
> > <szidalom> ['sid-O-lom]. Here, even the Hung. suffix
> > -alom (or: -V+lVm) has been kept (as -almã, that in
> > Romanian has no significance, except for the final -ã
> > showing it is a feminine noun).
> >
> > >P.S.: Please also be reserved in your appreciations if you want
> > >to enter in a discussion (see Piotr's moderation rules)...
> > >I will not answer if you cannot do this.
> >
> > [SNIP: fullquote in top-posting]
> >
> > In order to improve posting/quoting techniques, some of the
> > guidances in the webpages below are highly useful. These
> > recommendations are a part of the netiquette:
> >
> > Why is Bottom-Posting better than Top-Posting
> > http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
> >
> > Bottom vs. top posting and quotation style on Usenet
> > http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html
> >
> > the art of quoting
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanb/documents/quotingguide.html
> >
> > how do I quote correctly
> > http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> > http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html
> >
> > The advantages of Usenet's quoting conventions
> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/uquote.html
> >
> > The 7 don'ts of Usenet
> > http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/dont.html
> >
> > Mail and News
> > or What Do You Mean by "my reply is upside-down"?
> > http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/quotetext.html
> >
> > #
> >
> > Internet Mail:
> > LIVING WITH MICROSOFT OUTLOOK
> > http://www.lemis.com/email/fixing-outlook.html
> >
> > Changing Mail Settings In Outlook Express
> > http://www.nhi.clara.net/hkmail.htm
> >
> > Configuring your newsreader (plain text, proper quoting...)
> > http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html
> >
> > #
> >
> > Netiquette Guidelines
> > ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1855.txt
> >
> > regards,
> > George