Re: Alternance a-u in Romanian [...]

" The verb <a suduí> [su-du-'i] "to swear at, scold, curse"
is a Hungarian loanword <szid-> [sid]. Its reflex, as a
noun, <sudalmã> [su-'dal-m&] is even more transparent: Hung.
<szidalom> ['sid-O-lom]. Here, even the Hung. suffix
-alom (or: -V+lVm) has been kept (as -almã, that in
Romanian has no significance, except for the final -ã
showing it is a feminine noun)."

I know that the proposed etymology in DEX for sudui is
Magh. 'szidni' and for Rom. 'sudalma' is Magh. 'szidalom'. But I
have checked further with some of my Hungarian friends and 'szidni'
and 'szidalom' have an uncertain etymology in Hungarian dictionaries.
For sure both of them are not Uro-Altaic inherited word. So the
question is : From where they are?
Next the derivation of 'sudui'/'shaj' from a common PAlb *sadunja
or *swadunja don't raised any (derivation) problem in my opinion so
magyar 'szidni' could in fact be very well a loan from Old Romanian.
Also as Abdullah indicated we have a word 'shamë' in Albanian that
could be very well common with Romanian 'sudalma' from a PAlb
*swadalma.
Viewing this match between Romanian and Albanian forms that are
very old (s / sh , disparition of intervocalic d ) much older than
the Hungarian arrival in Pannonia and adding to this that the
Hungarian words are not inherited words in Hungarian but of unsure
etymology it is very probable that both Hungarian words are loans
from Romanian.

Best Regards,
Marius

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tolgs001" <st-george@...> wrote:
>
> alexandru_mg3@ wrote:
>
> > 'Maris'/'Muresh'
>
> Romanian Mures ['mureS] must've had an intermediary with
> ['mo-] in order to turn ['mu-]. In contrast with the other
> hydronym, Mara ['mara], in the Northern province of Maramures,
> whose Southern part belongs to Romania and whose Northern
> part to Ukraine (and whose local/regional name in Romanian
> is Maramurãs [mara'mur&S] and in Hungarian Maramaros
> ['ma:-rO-mO-roS]).
>
> So, Mara alone and Mara in MaramureS/MaramurãS haven't
> changed to *Mura, yet ancient Marisia has. (We don't know
> the exact pronunciation, by the autochtonous population,
> for Marisia. This is only the rendition by ancient
> chroniclers or geographers.)
>
> > 'sudui'/'shaj'?
>
> The verb <a suduí> [su-du-'i] "to swear at, scold, curse"
> is a Hungarian loanword <szid-> [sid]. Its reflex, as a
> noun, <sudalmã> [su-'dal-m&] is even more transparent: Hung.
> <szidalom> ['sid-O-lom]. Here, even the Hung. suffix
> -alom (or: -V+lVm) has been kept (as -almã, that in
> Romanian has no significance, except for the final -ã
> showing it is a feminine noun).
>
> >P.S.: Please also be reserved in your appreciations if you want
> >to enter in a discussion (see Piotr's moderation rules)...
> >I will not answer if you cannot do this.
>
> [SNIP: fullquote in top-posting]
>
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>
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>
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>
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> #
>
> Internet Mail:
> LIVING WITH MICROSOFT OUTLOOK
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>
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> George