Re: [tied] Re: Venus [was: Why borrow 'seven'? (was: IE right & 10)]

From: enlil@...
Message: 34829
Date: 2004-10-24

Morten:
> /Usil/ may mean sun

I don't object to the statement "'Usil' *may* mean 'sun'" but my point
is that we have no justification in asserting:

"Usil *is* with certainty the word 'sun'"

The above assertion is unsupportable, especially considering so many
other Etruscan words that have been claimed to be translated that do
deserve our scathing suspicion.

It is not the only translation and the context in which /usil/ is found
in (I've seen about three or four) doesn't warrant the translation of
"sun" considering that /tin/ and /tins'/ appears to be much more
appropriate. The word /tin/ is already without question the word for
"day" because of the evidence I cited previously.

Most languages (eg: Sumerian /ud/, Chinese /ri/) use "sun" to mean "day"
as well, and so it's surely unnatural to translate /tin/ as "sky", a
translation whose only basis appears to be blinded by an idle connection
with IE *deino-. The only thing going for /tin/="sun" is the fact that
Etruscan Tin (aka Tinia) was considered in those times the religious
equivalent of Roman Jupiter.

However, the latter fact does not guarantee that /tin/ means "sky" just
because Jupiter does and who ever heard of a language that uses the
same word for "sky" as they do for "day"? Find one. Note also the
many differences in function and portrayal between Roman and Greek
divinities despite the cross-cultural connections that might have been
placed on them by two neighbouring cultures. There are no guarantees
and linguistically, /tin/="sun" makes more sense.

So if I'm correct, Tinia is really the god of the _sun_ (or at least
started out that way) but yet had many characteristics seen in Roman
Jupiter. This is more natural. Further, since /tin/="sun", /usil/ and
*usilan must literally mean "setting" or rather "evening" just as
tHesan means "rising" or "morning". There is no text I've encountered
that would contradict my interpretation nor has Miguel or any of you
found any such text.

If you feel that you need a word for "sky" to replace the now defunct
word /tin/, one may find it yet again in the Zagreb Mummy text:

/celu-cn atHumi-tn/
"the earth [and] the sky"

The first is assuredly "earth" and is also the name of the corresponding
earth goddess Celu. The opposition of earth and sky here is emphasized
by the use of opposing proximal and distal demonstratives, respectively
/cn/ "this (near us)" and /tn/ "that (far away from us)", both in the
accusative case. If /atHumi/ is 'sky' it might be a borrowed Greek word
-- /atmos/ 'vapour' from which we get 'atmosphere'.


= gLeN