Re[6]: [tied] aldric, luis, aldrin = etymology?

At 2:58:27 AM on Saturday, October 23, 2004, alex wrote:

>> One would have to see the original context: <Sigismundo>,
>> for instance, may simply be the dative or ablative of an
>> implied <Sigismunus>.

Typo: that should be <Sigismundus>.

> If so, then this dative or ablative form was becomming a
> popular name; I remember about a lot of "Sigismund"-s in
> the late medieval time.

How does a late medieval <Sigismund> indicate that
<Sigismundo> was becoming a popular name? If you merely
mean that the name in some form became popular, that's
perfectly true, though it in fact appears in a wide variety
of forms: <Sigismund>, <Segemund>, <Symund>, <Symunt>,
<Symond>, etc. The standard modern German form is of course
<Siegmund>. The <-o> has nothing to do with the matter.

>> Again, these are names, not descriptions. One of the
>> basic principles of Germanic name-giving, already evident
>> at this early date, is inheritance of name themes.

> this early date?

Yes. This is very early in terms of our knowledge of
Germanic names and naming practices.

>> Thus, the children of an Ermanareiks are likely to have
>> names in <Ermana-> or (if male) <-reiks>. The literal
>> meaning of the names was already secondary.

> So Jordanes "latinised" the name of the Goths here or how?

Of course. Good grief; how could you not have realized
that?

[...]

>> In short, Alex is probably chasing a mirage.

> Or you don't got exactly what I meant. Even if Alaric in
> this passage is in dative "given to Alaric of the
> Visigoths and to Sigismund of the Burgunds" that doesnt
> change anything at the initial thought of me. Th. Mommsen
> was not exactly one who do not understand Latin, thus why
> using names in Dativ for that genealogy?

Oh, I knew what you meant. I was pointing out that you were
probably wrong. I don't know why Mommsen used inflected
forms, unless he had a policy of using only the actual
documentary forms.

> BTW, which should be the last Gothic names which have been
> recorded at all? Are any of them wchich have been kept as
> they have been in Toledo?

I don't know what you mean by this.

>>> About names which ends in "-a", one find them even
>>> between the first kings (Hisarna) but later too
>>> (Amalaberga).

>> <Amalaberga> is a Latinized feminine name; the Gothic
>> original would have had <-bergo>.

> Which will speak against a Latin inflexion or
> Dative/Ablative of what you said until now:-)

No, it won't: <-mund->, unlike <-berg->, is not a feminine
deuterotheme.

> If we keep this path, having before 3 century AC

I assume that you mean either AD (Anno Domini) or CE (Common
Era).

> names in /-a/ from /-an/ will mean the lost of the final
> consonants has been an early and wide phoenomenon for
> several languages and not only specific of a certain
> Romance in a late period of the IR.

IR?

Loss of final consonants is a common phenomenon.

Brian