Re: Etruscan numerals

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Moretti"
<marcomoretti69@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "thrsnmrtn" <thrsnmrtn@...>

wrote:

> >
> > Etruscan numerals
> >
> > The Etruscan Liber Linteus site
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/5181/etrusk/default.html
> >
> >
> > says the following about Etruscan numerals:
> >
> > Etruscan numerals are known from funerary inscriptions recording
> the
> > age of the deceased and from the 'Tuscania dice', on which the
> first
> > six numbers are written out in words rather than shown by dots,

as

> > usual. We therefore know the first six numbers:
> > thu, zal, ci, ša, mach, huth
> >
> > Their order was recognized because in antiquity the sum of each

of

> > the two opposite sides of the die added up to seven:
> mach+zal=seven;
> > thu+huth=seven; ci+ša=seven. Other clues led to the

identification

> of
> > each particular number, so that the order given above is

generally

> > accepted today.
> > What these numerals show, beyond any shadow of a doubt, is the

non-

> > Indo-European nature of the Etruscan language. Basic words like
> > numbers and names of relationships are often similar in the Indo-
> > European languages, for they derive from the same root.
> >
> > Another peculiarity of the Etruscan is the formation of numbers

by

> > subtraction, a system found also in Latin. Given the cultural
> > influence of the Etruscan in Rome, Latin may have derived it

from

> > Etruscan. In Etruscan, 17=20-3, 18=20-2, 19=20-1. In Latin we

have

> > duodeviginti, undeviginti. Multiples of 10 are formed with the
> >
> > ------------
> >
> > Is there any possibility that quattro and ša are related?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Morten
>
>
> It's far more probable that /huth/ =4 and /s'a/ = 6. The rule of

sum

> of each of the two opposite sides of the die added up to seven WAS

BY

> NO MEANS OF GENERAL USE IN ANCIENT WORLD. More probably Etruscan
> followed another rule: difference between numbers of the two

opposite

> sides of the die was three.
> We have a picture portraying FOUR Charons, and one of them is

called

> HUTHS, apparently 'the Fourth One'.
> If you assume /s'a/ to be 'four', you find no matchup at all in

the

> whole planet, if you assume /s'a/ is 'six', you are immediately

able

> to see that Etruscan was not from Mars, but had the same borrowing
> from Afro-Asiatic found also in IE, in Kartvelian, in Basque.
>
> Marco

************
Re s'a, huth, four, six:
1)I've never heard of a die except this one(?) that has words
for numbers instead of pips or at most numerals. Is it unique? If
so, its ordering is likely to have been nonstandard too.
2) Is anyone aware of a demographic study of Etruscan
tombstones, which I understand commonly give the age of the
deceased? I would expect more people died in their 60's or in
their 40's -- I really don't know which in the ancient world. Also
the portraits are supposed to be realistic. Sexagenanarians show
their extra decades (as I'm shocked to find personally). Has any
looked for a match here?
Dan Milton