[tied] Re: Venus [was: Why borrow 'seven'? (was: IE right & 10)]

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, enlil@... wrote:

> Loreto:
> > But outside (Indo-European) I think she is also related to Inanna,
> > Astharte, Asteroth etc.
>
> That much is clear, yes. Actually, speaking of the "Lady of the

Waters"

> theme that seems to be mentioned in your link, I recently came

across

> an Etruscan gloss "atisilitHiial" in Mayani's half-assed book about

his

> theories that Etruscan is related to Albanian (!!!???).

Unfortunately

> there are only three books at the Vancouver Public Library downtown

and

> his is one of the monstrosities.
>
> What does that have to do with anything? Well, I may speak more on

this

> later but I've noticed how badly translated Etruscan is and, not

only

> that, but also that there are even reasonable books on the subject

from

> Massimo Pallotino and the like that amazingly persist with

completely

> unverified translations that are no doubt lingerings of the crackpot
> ideas like those of Mayani. Sufficed to say, for example, /un/ and

it's

> derivatives are NOT the second person pronoun as some still insist

and

> the collective form /un-cHva/ shows clearly that /un/ is an

inanimate

> noun (most likely something like "libation"). But somebody tell

Massimo

> that. Check out the glossary he provides in his own books.
>
> I still am sure personally that Etruscan, Lemnian, Rhaetic,

EteoCypriot

> and even Minoan consitute a family which we may call Tyrrhenian and

that

> it deviated from IE approximately 6000 to 7000 BCE, hence my

mention of

> it on this list from time to time. However I've had enough of these
> rampant mistranslations and if I have to re-translate everything

with an

> iron fist and derive my own more comprehensive understanding of

Etruscan

> grammar, I will without embarassment if it means having translations
> that _finally_ make full sense in the contexts they are found in.
>
> So, I've been reviewing ALL words that have been "translated", so to
> speak, and making absolutely sure that the translations actually

make

> sense in ALL the contexts that they are written in. Unfortunately,

most

> don't! I've come up with some interesting results that relate to the
> above phrase.
>
> We can be certain that /ati/ means "mother" (Mayani thought it was
> "father" based solely on Albanian which shows you how outright inane
> some people can be -- the word for "father" is certainly /apa/).

McCallister's Etruscan Glossary supports you on both.

Ati = Mother

Apa = Father

>
> This leaves /silitHiial/ in the unspaced string above. However, I've
> recently found out that /tHi/ must surely be "water" and derivatives
> like /tHii/ "at/in the water" are found in the Zagreb Mummy text.

There

> is also a word for a "water containing vessel", /tHina/. So /tHiial/
> must mean "of the water(s)" and an inanimate genitive -al would be
> consistent with the translation and all its derivatives.

McCallister's Etruscan Glossary:

thii = baths (az96) (me: connected to water)

thina, tina = vase () (me: watercontainer)

thina = to bathe (az96)

>
> So we have "Mother BLANK of the waters". Sound familiar? I'm

wondering

> if this is a title of Turan (aka Venus) and I've found similar
> titles in Minoan Linear A starting with A-TA-I 'mother'.

Your BLANK is "sili".

According to McCallister:

zil-, Sel- = Order, govern, rule ()

zil, zili, zilac, zilax, zilat, zilc, zilci, zilx, zilath =
magistrate, official, praetor ()

(As i have proposed earlyer the syllable zi (or si?) may be connected
to breathe. Breathe is connected to life, death and SPIRIT. Forgive
me, I have to mention it)


I'd like to

> know more about that particular gloss but it seems to be a tough

one to

> track down for now. Mayani states that it is classified as CIE 302

and

> the inscription on this "statuette of a goddess" reads in full:
>
> mi fleres atisilitHiial
>
> I translate this to mean "I [am] the gift of Mother X of the

Waters".

> Whatever /sili/ is exactly would be anyone's guess.
>
> I just thought I'd share that.

McCallister's about fleres:

fler, fler-S = Sacred statue, offering, sacrifice()

fler, flere, flerxva "to inflate, bladder, proturbance (az96)

flere, flere-s, flere-S, flereri = divinity()

fleres, flereS = bronze statue (az96)statue (g/lb83)


I belive it also could be translated as:

I am the sacred statue of the mother spirit of the water.

>
> Some words that I'm re-translating for myself in Etruscan are:
>
> /usil/ -> does NOT mean "sun", probably "night"
> /usilane/ -> NOT "at noon" but "in the evening"
> /tin/ -> means _"sun"_ or "day", not "sky"

McCallister's:

tin, tins, tin-S, tin-Si = day

> /mula/ -> "to bless", not "to give"

McCallister's:

mul-, mul-a, mul-i, mul-u, mul-une, mul-veni, mul-eni-ke, mul-vani-
ce, mul-ve-nek-ke, mul-vunu-ke, mul-uvani-ce = to offer, dedicate as
an ex-voto,

> /mulacH/ -> "blessed" and hence "beautiful"

McCallister's:

mulax, malak, mlax = votive offering, dedication (g/lb83) recepient
for sacrifice (az96)

> /fav-in/ -> "to descend", n-extension of /fav-/

McCallister's:

favi, favi-ti, favin = ditch, grave, temple vault ()
favin = to favor (az96)
faviti = favorable (az96)

> /tr-in/ -> "to give", n-extension of /tur-/
>
> I also now believe that the Etruscan verb marks the mood, aspect
> and tense (in that order) but has lost any trace of former personal
> endings like those that exist in IE. In that way, I think I now
> know precisely what grammatical processes have shaped /cericHunce/
> out of /cera/ and the actual nuance between /ama/ and /ame/. No,
> /-ne/ is NOT the future tense. Sorry for the rant. Carry on.
>
>
> Loreto:
> > She maybe male too therefore who knows if Pan, Tala, Lucifer,

Azazel

> > and Jesus Christ are correspondent.
>
> No. These would be more in line with what I like to call the "male
> principle" theme. They look to me to be the embodiment of the

physical

> and involve the rebirth and death of vegetation during the course of
> the year. Ptah, Osiris, Tammuz, Dumuzi, Telepinu and Jesus would be
> examples. They all have a nasty habit of kicking the bucket and

having

> to be resurrected all the time. However, there also appear to be

_two_

> male figures that accompany the female figure. One is a son (eg:
> Etruscan Maris; Greek Hercules), the other a father and husband
> (Etruscan Tin; Greek Zeus).
>
> You'll perhaps notice that the "female principle" (the Goddess) as
> represented by Inanna, Hera, Ishtar, Uni, Turan, Venus and the like

seems

> to be more ethereal or non-physical. In the bible, we might more

aptly

> connect Mother Mary to the latter theme. I'm tempted also to

connect the

> always enigmatic and curiously sexless "Holy Ghost" in the phrase
> 'Father, Son and Holy Ghost' to this as well. In all, the female
> principle seems to pertain to the creative power itself (note

pregnancy

> is a female domain) or natural order rather than the bounties that

derive

> from it.
>
>
> Loreto:
> > Further I think she more represent the number six (and perhaps
> > nine) rather than seven.
>
> Not necessarily so in re of the Seven Sisters of the Pleiades. In

the

> bible at least, the well-known 666 is connected with Satan, a kind

of

> derivative of Baal (back to the male principle again). What do you
> have in mind in regards to 'nine'?
>
>
> = gLeN