Re: [tied] Re: IE right & 10

From: petusek
Message: 34142
Date: 2004-09-14

From: enlil@...
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>Petusek:
>> Well, I should not write superior, perhaps "advanced" might be better,
>> although I am not sure wether this would be possible, either.
>
>Sorry, I'm terminologically sensitive.
>

That's all right, I shall learn to be more accurate.

>> OK, that is clear. So, they might have been among the dominant trading
>> nations.
>
>Not 'nation' as in country. More like a bunch of tribes who speak the
>same language(s).
>

Again, that termonological inaccuracy of mine! I'm still being influenced by
my mother tongue, where the notion of nations and tribes is based on their
self-determination (pride). I'm sorry for that. :)

>> If another nation of that region had been so influential, why would
>> IE's and other groups not have borrowed the number from Hattians or
>> Hurrians or whoever?

>Hattians and Hurrians weren't wedged next to the Mediterranean like
>the Semites were.

This is true, I admit.

>> If I understand it well, PT *sepa < Ak form sebe or seba, right?

>I'm not sure exactly. It's from some Semitic language but I don't know
>which one(s) yet. Conceivably, it could also be from Egyptian *safxaw.

Yes, of course. If we make a list of the Austro-Asiatic expressions for the
numeral seven, in various branches of the super-stock, we'll get several
candidate languages, but Semitic and Egyptian seem to be the most convincing
ones:

1. Proto-Berber *sa:h, *hissa:h

South Berber

1a. Tawllemmet sah/-at, ?s.s.a/-yat
1b. Tahaggart ?ssa, ?ssa^hät
1c. Taitoq essa, essahet
1d. Kel-Ui essa^
1e. Ghat sa

East Berber

1f. Ghadames sa, sat

West Berber

1g. Zenaga ?ss?h, essa:'D?T

North Berber

1h. Tashelhait sä? (Sus), sa/sat (Aspinion), sa/sät (Semlal), ssä/-t
(Tazerwalt)
1i. Tamazight sa/-t
1j. Beni Mzab saa/-t

2. Guanche

2a. Gran Canaria satti
2b. Tenerife sat (Cedeno de Chil, Marin y Cubas, Berthelot), sa/sát
(Pseudo-Sosa)

Berber and Guanche forms are sometimes thought to have arisen from something
like *sab(?)-(a)ti- (i.e. assim. -bt- > -tt- or sim.)

3. Proto-Semitic *sáb?-u(m) / sab?-át-u(m) (by Dolgopolsky in 1995) &
Semitic *sab?-(at)- (problematic reconstructions) < sab?- "index (finger)

3a. Akkadian m/f sebe, seba / sebet(tu) < PSe *sib?-
(however)
3b. Old Assyrian s^abe
3c. Hebrew s^E'Ba / s^iB?a:
3d. Aramaic s^?Ba? /s^iB?a^
All three < pSe *s^ab?-

4. Proto-Egyptian *safHaw (Vycichl) / *safHa.t (Loprieno) one of many
etymological attempts: < *sab?- + sandhi when counting in the sequence ...6,
7, 8... (7...8 *sab?- ...*Hama:n/*Hamu:n, thus *sab?-*HamV:n- > *sabh-- >
*safh--)

etc.

Among Semitic languages, only those of the Akkadian type had s- (and not
s^-), it is thus most probable that the donor for the Tyr. was an "Akkadish"
language (if, of course, the donor hadn't been Egyptian - yet, is this
possible?)

Petusek