Re: [tied] OCS 'dovesti'

From: petusek
Message: 33953
Date: 2004-09-01

----- Original Message -----
From: "altamix" <alxmoeller@...>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] OCS 'dovesti'

--- In, "petusek" <petusek@...> wrote:
> What does "vedon" mean? ( praes. ind.? I am not sure, tell
> me,
> please).

>I don't know either. I just have this form in my dictionary for the
>verb "a dovedi < Slavic "dovesti" (dovedon)."
>The question I started was because of Rom. verb "a dovedi" which
>means "to proove". The semantism of the verb due Slavic "do" which -
>how you explain- shows the action was fullfilled, makes a lot of
>sense if one connect it with the verb "to see". The verb to see here
>in this case in Slavic "videti"(?) + preposition "do" will make the
>sense of "seen until at the end"=prooven but.... a "*do-videti" does
>not explain the vocalism of Rom. verb and apparently there is
>no "videti" there but something else. If I point to the word "vãdit"
>which means "clear" we have an another ecuation. The word "vãdit" and
>the verb "vãdi" is considered to be from Slavic "vaditi", thus one
>will have here maybe an "do+vaditi" > "*dovãdi(ti)" > "dovedi(ti)"
>with the change of "a" to "e" via schwa , also a > ã and this "ã"
>> "e" because of the "i" in the last syllable.
>The semantic will work as well since the meaning "clear"(vãdit) + do
>(until at the end)= will mean too "seen until at the end",
>thus, "prooven". Apparently the verbs "videti" in Slavic and "vedea"
>in Rom. have influenced the perception of the verb in that way , kind
>of "weel seen"= "prooved".
>So for me, for Rom. "dovedi" there can be from Slavic "*do-vaditi"
>under the influence of the verbs "vedea, viditi" and not from "do-
>vesti" so I did not understood why DEX considered "dovesti"(dovedon)
>as being the Slavic form for "dovedi". The "vesti" is simply "a
>vestí, veste" in Rom. and it remained unchanged at all, even
>the "ste" remain "ste" and does not became "s^te".
>So far my question is answered since the "do" was here the key of
>explaing the connection between "clear" and "prooven" vithout
>implying "dovesti". Thank you.
>> Petusek

Alex, there is another verb in Czech (and other Slavic languages) that you
might find suitable:

dove^de^ti se (or iter. "dovi:dati se", "se" being a refl. pronoun) < do +
ve^de^ti "to know" , where the basis *ve^d- has the perfective meaning of
*vid- , which can be found in "vide^ti" = "to see", i.e.:

1. vide^ti = "to see"
2. ve^de^ti = "to have seen" = "to know"
3. dove^de^ti se = "to find out"

Clear? Maybe, this is a better verb as for its vocalism.