Re: [tied] Bader's article on *-os(y)o

From: Miguel Carrasquer
Message: 32683
Date: 2004-05-18

On Mon, 17 May 2004 23:07:30 +0000, Rob
<magwich78@...> wrote:

>--- In, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>> That's what I've been saying.
>Ah, okay :)
>> The quality of the thematic vowel would have been /o/ in any
>> case, whether the *-es had been added late or early.
>Why is that?

Because the thematic vowel becomes /o/ before a vowel.

>> The length (due to contraction) of *-o::s probably
>> _is_ a sign that this ending is not very old. If the
>> pronominal marker added to the thematic vowel in the plural
>> was *es in the nominative and *ey in the oblique, and it was
>> added early, we would expect *-os(W) and *-oy.
>How so?

Presumably, the suffix *-ey was unstressed, and was reduced
to *-y by zero grade, but not before the *e had caused
lengthening (i.e. o-grade) of the thematic vowel.
A better example (because it involves voiced and unvoiced
sounds) is the *-osyo, from thematic vowel + *esyo.
the order of the rules is:

1) *-a- > *-a:- before voiced (*-a-asy- > *-a:-asy-)
2) zero grade (-a:-asy- > -a:-sy- > -osy(o)).

But the lenthening of the thematic vowel comes _after_ the
rule that deletes *i (and also after the final voicing rule,
whatever its exact formulation): *-a-iz > *-a-z > *-a:-z > *-os *-a-ih2 > *-a-h2 > *-eh2

>Why would *-o-es > *-o::s and not *-o:s?

For the same reason that in the *o-ei yields *-o::i,
and not *oi. I suspect the *-o-eh1 should have
yielded *-o::h1, but that merged with *-oh1 and *-o:h1.

In other words:

nom. *-á-iz > *-á-z > *-á:-z > *-os
acc. *-á-im > *-á-m > *-á:-m > *-om
n. *-á-id > *-á-d > *-á:-d > *-od
voc. *-á > *-á > *-á > *-e
gen. *-á-asya: > *-á-asya: > *-á:-&sya: > *-osyo
dat. *-a-á(i) > *-a-ái > *-a:-ái > *-oéi > *-o::i
loc. *-á-a(i) > *-á-ai > *-a:-&i > *-oi
ins. *-a-át > *-a-át > *-a:-át > *-oéh1 > *-o:h1
abl. *-á-a:t > *-á-a:t > *-á:-a:t > *-oot

nom. [*-á-asW > *-á:&sW > *-osW]
*-a-ásW > *-a:ásW > *-oes > *-o::sW
obl. *-á-aty > *-á:&y > *-oy

The other forms are based on the oblique, approximately: *-á:-&y-&m-&sW > *-oyms > *-oems > *-o:ms *-á:-&y-&m > *-oym > *-oem > *-o::m *-a:-&y-á-:sW > *-oyósW *-á:-&y-&-&sW > *-óysW + i > *-oysú *-á:-&y-a:t-&sW > *-óyots > *-óyos (~ *-oybhios) *-a:-&y-át-&sW > *-oyéts > *-oyís > *-o::is

>Doesn't PIE *o: remain the same in PGmc.?

Sorry: *-o:siz.

Miguel Carrasquer Vidal