Re: [tied] Re: Fibulas Almgren group VI

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> > > > > > > abstract:
> > > > > > > "
> > > > > > > The single-piece fibula with inverted
> foot
> > > and
> > > > > chord
> > > > > > > in high position
> > > > > > > (A VI, 1a; pl VII) developed from the La
> > > T�ne II
> > > > > > > fibula. They were
> > > > > > > produced in North Pontic workshops in
> the
> > > first
> > > > > > > century AD,
> >
> > *****GK: Does Ionita have something additional to
> say
> > about these "North Pontic workshops"? In the
> > literature, such references usually mean that the
> > object(s) in question was (were) made by masters
> > residing in a North Pontic CITY, such as e.g.
> Olbia
> > (Borysthenes), Panticapaeum, etc., etc..
>
> Those are the places he mentions as possible site
> for the workshops,
> yes.
>
> >The products
> > then made their way into various ethnic
> hinterlands by
> > way of trading networks.******
>
> This is the assumption since we supposedly don't
> have a migration to
> account for the journey.
>
> >
> > and soon
> > > > > > > spread to the lower Volga, the Caucasus,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > > Central Dniepr
> > > > > > > (Zarubineck Culture).
> >
> > GK: If Almgren VI originated as above, then it
> is
> > not an ethnically definable object. The Lower
> Volga,
> > the Caucasus, the Central Dnipro, were inhabited
> by
> > different populations. In order to argue that A VI
> was
> > carried by "population X" to "area Y" you need
> more
> > evidence at both ends than just the fibula. But we
> > have already discussed this in connection with
> > "specifically identifiable" gravesites. We have
> none
> > for the "Odin people" AFAIK.
> >
> >
> (Torsten) On the contrary. If Almgren VI is found on

the

> Crimea, at Rostov-on-
> the-Don and in the Caucasus in the kingdom of Vani
> that matches well
> with a united Asir-Vanir people later moving into
> Nortern Europe.

*****GK: Well according to Snorri the Vanir lived on
the lower Don and the Aesir east of them. He knows
nothing about a "kingdom of Vani" "in the Caucasus".
That is your theory. As I've already said any number
of times, you can't just pick bits and pieces out of
Snorri's account and reshuffle the lot according to
your liking. Either there is archaeological and
historical backing for Snorri's tale or there isn't.
There isn't.==== As a corollary point. By the time of
Almgren VI, the territories around the lower Don and
in the Crimean interior were predominantly Alanic. So
is that your most recent reshuffle? That the "Odin
people" were cultural Alans? But what evidence do you
have for the arrival of substantial numbers of
cultural Alans in Germany in the 2nd c. (there is none
for your earlier preferred date of the mid- 1rst c.
BC). Nothing in history and archaeology "matches well
with a united Asir-Vanir people later moving into
Northern Europe". You keep repeating this, shuffling
and reshuffling poor old Snorri. But when asked for
evidence, you seem unable to produce anything at all.
Almgren VI is not associated with a specific cultural
group. The appearance of such fibulae in widely
different contexts is the best possible argument
against some identifiable people migrating. When a
people migrates it leaves signs other than just
fibulae: gravesites with specific inventories,
settlements (sometimes). You are unable to provide any
such evidence for your mythical "Odin people".******





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