Re: [tied] Re: Rise of the Feminine (was: -osyo 3)

From: Joao
Message: 32273
Date: 2004-04-24

Could the Greek -id had some relationship with Semitic and Egyptian feminine -t ?
 
Joao SL
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Wordingham
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 3:44 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Rise of the Feminine (was: -osyo 3)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "elmeras2000" <jer@......> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham"
> <richard.wordingham@......> wrote:

> > Don't thematic adjectives of two terminations (i.e. identical
> > masculine and feminine) argue for the feminine being 'recent'?
> > I
> > think the same could be said for the various feminine-only
> > adjectives that occur in Greek.
>
> What is meant by this?

There are a fair few consonant stem adjectives in -d- that do not
have corresponding masculine or neuter forms:

_basile:ï's_, _basilís_ 'kingly, royal'
_gorgôpis_ 'fierce-eyed, terrible'
_dendrôtis_ 'wooded'
_dikthás_ 'double, divided'
_dolôpis_ 'artful-looking'
_Do:rís_ 'Doric, Dorian'

Many have clearly related adjectives applicable to at least
masculine and feminine:

basíleios (3-termination)
_gorgó:ps_, _gorgo:pós_ (2-termination)
_dikhthádios_ 'wooded'
_Do:rikós_, Dó:rios 'Doric, Dorian'

An interesting pair, perhaps reflecting an original, chaotic state
of affairs is the pair
_do:matí:te:s_ (masculine, 1st declension)
_do:matîtis_ (feminine, 3rd declension in -d-)
'belonging to the house or household'.

Should I be looking forward to hearing how Greek -id- is a byform
of //yeh2// ? :)

> My arguments for the antiquity of the feminine are as follows:
>
> 1. The fem. of athematic is formed by a suffix //-yeH2-// which
> shows ablaut. The process that brought about ablaut was long over
> when Anatolian broke off from the rest of IE, for wordforms ablaut
> in Anatolian just as they do in the other branches.

Does this argue for the antiquity of the feminine _gender_, or just
for the antiquity of the facultative formation of feminine
substantives?

I've not discussed the other arguments as at present I have nothing
remotely useful to say about them.

Richard.