Re: [tied] The disappearance of *-s -- The saga continues

Miguel:

> They say the same thing about /r/. They don't even mention
> alveolars. They're wrong.

But "r" is in many cases in Quebec rolled with the apex of
your tongue, not just uvular as is the norm in Europe.

> Just as wrong as at another Canadian University

So you're saying that a European University is going to be
more competent in explaining Canadian French pronunciation?
Now that's a little presumptious.

> (http://www.lli.ulaval.ca/labo2256/lexique/alveolaire.html),
> where they claim that "Une consonne alvéolaire a les
> alvéoles comme lieu d'articulation. [t], [d], [n], [s], [z]
> et [l] sont des consonnes alvéolaires en français", which is
> patently untrue for [t] and [d].

Yes, /t/ and /d/ are normally dental. Perhaps however, because
of the English influence on French that is very much real in
Canada, that there are some dialect areas where anglicized
alveolar phonemes are used. Afterall, there's even some French
that pronounce an English-style "r", particular in borrowed
words like "le leader" but I've also heard it spread to native
words in final position.

We have to distinguish between the normal phonemic tendency
on the one hand (the topic I was discussing) and dialectal or
phonetic variations that deviate from dental positions (a topic
that I wasn't discussing).

>>The alveolar you're speaking of is the "ch" in "chose" or
>>the "j" in "jambe".
>
> Nope, that's post-alveolar.

Whatever, more nitpicking.


= gLeN