--- tgpedersen <
tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> Before I forget, yesterday's Berlingske Tidende had
> an article on the
> weapons deposit finds in the Vimose bog (0 - 200 CE)
> on Fyn: five
> ring-pommeled swords (usually considered to a
> Sarmatian thing). The
> researcher involved didn't say as much, but the
> angle of the article
> was: Danes might have participated in the Marcomanni
> war we know
> from "Gladiator". The understood premise is that
> this would have been
> the first opportunity for people from this country
> to meet
> Sarmatians. Unfortunately (this was news to me) the
> notes of the
> excavators have been lost, and the finds are
> scattered all over
> Europe, since a local priest sold out of them, so
> there is not much
> of a chance to place the supposedly Sarmatian swords
> anywhere within
> the given timeframe.
>
> Torsten
*****GK: I know I'm going to regret this...
My dear Torsten, I can guarantee that no matter how
long and how hard you look, you will never find the
evidence required to substantiate your use of the
Snorri story as a prime foundation stone for your
theory of Germanic origins. Rydberg's study of this
problem, though over one hundred years old, remains
the best antidote. Cf.
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/rydberg/007.php?PHPSESSID=8920370ec3d7612e4af8c5277e0f4833
There is, however, one point which readers of this
thread should remember. And it is this: your theory is
not Snorri's theory. At best, one may view it as a
"variation on a theme from Snorri in the
Ynglingasaga". At the moment, you are searching for
archaeological proof that "Odin's people" wandered
westward through Bastarnia and Vandalia before they
reached Germany proper ("Saxland"). But the route from
"Asaland" which you have picked for them is not the
one scripted by Snorri. (The Snorra Edda has nothing
to say about the specifics of the route, and in any
case its identification of Turkland with Troy, and of
Odin as a 20th generation descendant of King Priam of
Troy should be warrant enough for instant dismissal.
It knows nothing of "Asgard", "Vanaland", "Tanakvisl"
et sim. So it's either Heimskringla or it's nothing.)
But what does Snorri say? (1) That "Asaland" (Odin's
country) was located somewhere to the east of the Don
river, and certainly to the east of "Vanaland", which
occupied both banks of the Don. [let's not get into
the impossible archaeology for this, because I only
want to make a point about the specifics of "Odin's
journey" according to Snorri] (2) That at some point
between 70 and 60 BC [the timeframe for Pompey the
Roman's conquests in the east, incl. the destruction
of Mithradates' Empire (which would have abutted on
the so-called "Vanaland" from the south) and the
defeat of Armenia], Odin decided to abandon Asaland
and set forth on his journey. (3) That initially he
travelled "westward to Gardariki". Presumably since at
that time (in Snorri's account) Asaland and Vanaland
were friends and allies, the "westward" journey would
start from the Asaland-Vanaland territories, i.e. Odin
would move across to Don towards the setting sun. What
was "Gardariki" for Snorri? It was the territory of
the Rus' complex of his time (as "Turkland" was the
Seldjuk Asia Minor). We know the geographical
boundaries of this complex very well. What next? (4)
From "Gardariki" Odin and co. travelled "SOUTH" to
"Saxland". Now how is it possible to do that? There is
only one scenario: they are imagined by Snorri to have
taken "the road from the Greeks to the Varangians",
which was the prime highway for east-bound
Scandinavians in Snorri's time. The most northerly
city of the Rus' complex at that time was Ladoga, also
well known to Norsemen, and from Ladoga, the way to
"Saxland" is indeed a way to the south. === Let's not
worry about the anachronism (one of many). After all
in the Old Ukrainian Chronicle, the Apostle Andrew is
made to travel from Chersones to Rome by this
"Varangian Road" in the mid-first first century AD.
(5) After having spent some time in "Saxland" the
Odinists started their expansion northward.== This
assumes that at first they passed by Scandinavia
without stopping. That assumption is entirely
compatible with Snorri's story.
Now I don't think it is possible to demonstrate
Snorri's version. It's fantasy. But at least it's
fantasy once removed from reality, not twice (as yours
is, since your theory is "Snorri" (snippets from
Snorri) + Torsten). Snorri doesn't say how long the
trip from Asaland to Saxland took. If you opt for the
"long" version, you'll have to find your Sarmatian
proof somewhere between Kyiv and Ladoga (good
luck...). If you choose the "short" version, you still
have to come up with some evidence of foreign
intrusion in Germany ca. 60/50 BC, and an intrusion
identifiable with archaeological objects from the
east.******
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