Re: [tied] Whence Grimm?

From: george knysh
Message: 31719
Date: 2004-04-05

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> >
> > with Tacitus'
> > > information
> > > > we have a
> > > > migration
> >
> > GK: What "migration" would that be?
> >
> (TP) It takes some proximity to produce common

*****GK: The arrival of a certain number of
"Sarmatian" brides to be in Bastarnia (=basically the
area of contemporary Moldavia) at some point prior to
98 AD has nothing to do, per se, with the concept of
"migration", which involves a fairly substantial
movement of people and ethna, and which leaves
verifiable historical, archaeological, toponymic etc.
traces. The earliest such evidence for the
infiltration of Sarmatian elements close to or into
the territory of Bastarnia can be accurately dated as
of the first half of the 1rst c. AD (there are burials
on the lower Dnister). This correlates to information
in Strabo about the presence of Yazygians in the
steppes east of the Tyragetae. There is no indication
of any Sarmatian presence further west. Interestingly
enough, the arrival of Yazygians on the Dnister
involved the out-migration of the earlier settled
population (Baran, 1990, p.19). *****
>(TP) I forgot to mention that the saddle (according
> what I could find
> on the net) is considered to be a Sarmatian
> invention. The Iranian
> and Indic mismatching cognates of "saddle" that
> Piotr provided are
> from Avestan and Sanskrit repectively, so they don't
> disprove the
> assumption of a Sarmatian provenance for *saDula.
> Apart from it being
> Iranian, we don't know much about Sarmatian.

*****GK: Even my meager linguistic knowledge casts
doubt on this. The Sarmatians may well have invented
the saddle. Does this mean that it is their word for
it that entered the vocabulary of neighbouring (or
borrowing) peoples? I'm not sure about Germanic, but
it seems to me that in Slavic the term "sedlo" "sidlo"
correlates comfortably with various terms designating
"sitting". (In Ukr. "sydity" (to sit; "sidaj!" = "sit
down!") "sydzhennja" (something to sit on) etc. In any
case, as pointed out earlier, and I think you agree
with this, a word may "migrate" independently of the
population whence it originates.*****

> >(GK) And strike three (as usual) is your
> > complete incapacity to prove that the steppe
> cultures
> > of the 1rst c. BC (and of prior centuries),
> especially
> > those of the Lower Don basin and Azov seashores
> had a
> > Germanic component.
>(TP) I think what you mean is the reverse: a
> component in the
> Germanic culture.

*****GK: What Germanic culture are you talking about?
There was none here prior to the arrival of the Goths
and associates, and on this the agreement of history
and archaeology is total. There is no verification for
the Snorri "Asgard" tales of the early 13th

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