agony? ( it was: Re: Yugoslawia)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel J. Milton"

<dmilt1896@...>

> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <alxmoeller@...>

wrote:

> > Rom. "a ajuna", Alb. "agjërim" ( *agenim(?)) means "to
> > > fast" which is in fact a religious celebration. The forms are

too

> > > very appropiate to Greek "agein", don't you find?
> > ********
> > No.
> > The obvious source of Rom. 'ajuna' is

Latin 'jejunus' "fasting"

> > (non-religious in classical Latin, religious in eccl. Latin).
> > This
> > etymology is confirmed by Buck, who also writes "doubtful
> etymology"
> > for the Latin.
> > 'Jejunus' is a peculiar-looking word. Any suggestions here?
> > Dan
>
> Your "obvious" is far away from being obvious here. The Latin form
> does not explain Romanian and Albanian forms which begin both
> with "a".
> This is why DEX consider a potentialy *adjunare for Romanian,

leting

> the Albanian "e" unexplained "ageron" with this form. How would

you

> like to get an "a" from Latin "je" in Alb. and Rom?
> jejunus > ajun or jejunus > *agenon > ageron in Albanian?
>
> I suspect here we have to deal with a form as *ageo:n- which will
> explain Rom. "u" and Alb. "e".
>
> For Rom: ageo:n > ag^on > ajun
> For Alb: ageo:n > ageen > agen + suffix "on" for verbs
>
> The same situation appears in the words as Latin "semi",
> Greek "hemis" and Alb. "gjymë(sã)" and Rom. "jumã(tate)"

but in
this

> case there appear we have to deal with an short "o" since it
> became "u" in Albanian as well, thus:
> *seom- > s^om- > jum- in Rom
> *seom- > s^om- > gjym-
>
> I assume the change s^> gj ( Rom. j) was probale since this is to

see

> in Sarpe = gjarpë or Sase = gjash(te) as well.
>
> The funny thing, we have on a side Latin and Greek with an "e"
> (semis, hemis) and on another side Alb. and Rom. with "u".
> I don't sustain my derivation is the best and I will love to see

some

> other opinion as well.
>
> Latin influence in both of these words (ajuna/agenon, gyumë/juma)

are

> absolutely excluded and in the religious therminology of Romanian,
> the ecclesiast Latin therms are simply unknown so far I am

informed.

>
> Alex

*********
I'm happy with DEX. L. *adjunare may have a asterisk, but it's
not just ad hoc for Rom., but supported by Sp. 'ayunar' (and perhaps
Fr. 'jeuner').
In my previous posting, I'd missed Lewis and Short's
"jejunus , a, um, adj. [kindr. to Sanscr. yam, refrenare,
cohibere; intens. yanyam, Bopp. Gloss. p. 276, a] , fasting, hungry,
abstinent, not partaking of food."
Bopp is really going back to the pioneer days, and this probably
shouldn't be taken too seriously, but there it is.
Dan