Re: Late Proto Albanian *3 /dz/ = Early Proto Romanian *3 /dz/

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> Richard Wordingham wrote:
> >> OK, the infinitive form is "a zice"
> >>
> >> Latin di:ce(re) > PBR *dice > *diece > *dz'ece > *zece
> >
> > Alex, what do you base this sequence of developments on?

Fallible

> > memory? Analogy with etymologies you can remember? (The latter

can

> > be sabotaged by knowing the Latin spelling but not having seen

the

> > length marks.) Try them out with the 'toy' I provided -
> >

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard.wordingham/sounds/prep5d_rom.htm

>
> > Richard.
>
> Because of its singluarity. The "di:cere" is the only one word

which give

> "zi" in that position.
> First of all, I am puzled by the fact that in initial position

Latin "di:"

> has just only one representat. And this is this "di:cere", no

another word.

> Better said, from all the words which are in Rom. and they begin

with "zi"

> there are just two which are supposed to derive from Latin:
> die:s > ziuã
> di:cere > zice.
> Bon remarque: Latin /di:/ in initial position has just only a

representant

> in Ro. and this is the questionable "zice".
>
> I contiuned with "ze/zã" which should derive as per rules made

known here

> from a Latin "di" or "de". It seems they are missing too in initial
> position. Here are all the words:
> dia:natecus ~ zãnatec ( compare with Latin dianatecus)
> di:a:na ~ zânã (probabl. from Latin Diana)

Short /i/! General rule for Classical Latin is that a vowel before
another vowel is short. Exceptions are loans ane sequences of three
vowels, such as the genitive and dative _die:i:_ of _die:s_ 'day'.

> decem > zece
> dext(e)rae > zestre ( semantism does not matches)
> di:cere > zice
> die:s > ziuã
>
> It appears as in Albanian, a very reduced number of words. Amazing

reduced.

> Considering just what is thought to be sure we remain just at

three words:

>
> decem > zece
>
> di:cere > zice
> die:s > ziuã
>
> That is all.Take the DEX and look at. That is all from

Latin "di:" , "di",

> "de:" "de" in initial position which yelded an "z" in Rom. .

Enough for

> making a rule of this? It seems it is enough. I need more time for

the words

> which presents latin "di" & "de" within Romanian words since in

electronic

> format I have finished Albanian loans from Latin only..
> It appears though very poor to me the percentage and I indeed

wonder why

> just 3 words? Sincerly I have expected more.

If you discount the words starting with the prefixes di:- and dis-,
there are, in my pocket dictionary,

6 or 7 words starting di: - di:co: 'say', Di:do:, di:rus 'ominous',
di:thyrambus 'dithyramb', di:(ve)s, di:(vi)t- 'rich' (and its
compounds), di:vus 'god, divine' and its compounds, di:vum 'sky'.
Not a rich haul.

There are a great many words starting di- either: Dia:na,
die:s 'day', Dindymus, Dipylon, Dirce:, disco: 'teach',
discus 'qoit', a number of words in dic- - compounds of di:co:
(formed from the weak grade, so a short vowel), diu: 'long time',
and a few Greek words in dia(:)- or dio(:)-. Again, not very common.

Richard.