Re: Late Proto Albanian *3 /dz/ = Early Proto Romanian *3 /dz/

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "altamix" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> > On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:13:55 +0000, altamix <alxmoeller@...>

wrote:

> > >of the Romanist from you:
>
> > >-because of "zi" and not the expected "ze"
> >
> > *What* expected "ze"?
> >
> > =======================
> > Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > mcv@...
>
> To mention your own words, the "z" from "di" is via "dj" which can
> appear in that posiion just due diphtongation of /i/ to /ie/;

the /i/

> of the diphtong /ie/ palatalises the /d/ and become absorbed by

this,

> remaining just an /e/; this /e/ can remain /e/ or diphtongues again
> if in the next syllable is an /ã/ or an /e/

There are four Latin sources of Romanian z:

a) di: > zi
b) di + vowel > z + vowel (i unstressed)
c) de + vowel > z + vowel (e unstressed)
d) de + consonant > ze + consonant (e stressed (and short); nasals
can 'bleed' the rule, cf. _tempus_ > _timp_)

Routes (b), (c) and (d) all have an intermediate stage of dj + vowel.

> OK, the infinitive form is "a zice"
>
> Latin di:ce(re) > PBR *dice > *diece > *dz'ece > *zece

Alex, what do you base this sequence of developments on? Fallible
memory? Analogy with etymologies you can remember? (The latter can
be sabotaged by knowing the Latin spelling but not having seen the
length marks.) Try them out with the 'toy' I provided -
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richard.wordingham/sounds/prep5d_rom.htm

(If you want to download it, view source and save that - IE 'save
file as' corrupts the rules.) I plan to clean it up and post a list
of problems this weekend. Miguel might be able to remember all the
rules, but I haven't managed to learn them by heart.

Richard.