Re: [tied] Re: Late Proto Albanian *3 /dz/ = Early Proto Romanian

From: alex
Message: 30593
Date: 2004-02-03

Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:39:54 +0100, Piotr Gasiorowski
> <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
>> Proto-Albanian did palatalise
>> *tj and *dj (> *c^, 3^, differently from Proto-Romanian), but
>> tolerated
>> *di-/*ti- (as well as *die-/*tie-) both in inherited words and in
>> Latin ones.
> Does this mean that e > �e (and only later i�/j�)?
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...

It seems there is latin "ti" > "s" in Albanian. Miguel remarqued that the
"ti" group has been unstable in Romance, this group having different fonetic
values and maybe there is something to speculate about.
Since Piotr sustained that Slavic "c^" is stil represented in Albanian as
"s" in the very old loans, it was a contradiction that no Romance "c^" is
represented in Albanian trough "s". OK, the "c^" in Rom. "cioar�" is not of
Romance origin but it is represented in Albanian as "s".
I tried to find out some examples of Latin "ti" or "ci" which are
represented in
Albanian trough "s". We have as follow:
palatium > p�llas
patire > psoj
servitium > sh�rbes�
vitium > ves
ratione > arsye

Now, the initial "ti" remained "t" in Albanian as well. It ought to see that
I mentioned here just the Latin words where the "ti"-group is intervocalic
avoiding the clusters as "Cti".It ought to mention that no Latin word which
contains "ki" ( bad or good supposed as etymon for actually Albanian
words, ) so, no such word presents a reflex in Albanian as "s".

From all Latin etymons which begins with "di" there is just only one which
is supposed to give "z" and this is Latin "Diana" which gave "z�n�" in
Albanian (incidentaly the same word is in Rom. as well "z�n�" with the same
supposed Latin "pedigree"). All other words which begin with "di" ( there is
no *di:* in these words) have the actualy Albanian reflex "dj-" if not the
"i" got lost for having a consonant cluster as in "directu" > "drejt�".

The latin intervocalic group "di" shows an "z" in words as "meridiare" >
"m�rzej", "paradi:su" > "parriz", "radia" > "rreze", "spodium" > shpuz�",
"o:rdine" > "urdh�r";
In all these words we have a short Latin "i" beside "paradi:su". Beside the
word "paradisu", and "o:rdine" all other words are known in Romanian as well
they having the same form as Albanian. ("m�rzej" is known in Aromanian only
and I guess its form is "merizi" or "m�rizi", the rest in DR being "raz�",
"spuz�", ).

That appears intersting because it seems here Albanian did not lost the
intervocalic "d". But there are some words where *di:* this time appears to
confirme the rule with the lost of intervocalic "d". They are as follow:
benedi:cere > b�koj
maledi:cere > mallkoj
radi:ce > rrik�
radi:cula > rrilk�