Re: [tied] Genetic Link between Albanian and Romanian

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:

>> Alb Rom
>>
>> 1) /y/ y -- = 1
>>
>> 1.5) Sorry but I cannot count this as 1(ONE): its only a variant
>> of /&/ ã
>
> Well, it isn't. Is rãu ("bad") the same word as râu ("river")?

Of course not.

>>2) a) /k^/ q -- 4 = 0.5
>> b) /g^/ gj -- = 0.5
>> (there is not for nothing that they put 2 sounds in the same
>> square (see urls)...because they act like pairs), also these 2
>> sounds even different are very closed to the romanian ones)
>
> Close to which Romanian ones? Romanian doesn't have palatal stops.

In standard literary Romanian, no. In subdialectal speech, yes.
But they are late DR innovations, not connected with substratum.

[...]

>> Note on 6) and 7) : I wouldn't insisted so much with rr and ll
>> differences regarding r and l. You counted them as 1 only to
>> increase the differences with Albanians
>
> No. I counted them as differences because they are different.

Of course.

>> And I count 9 differences between Romanian and Italian:
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>> Ita Rom
>> 1) a) -- /&/ ã = 0.5
>> b) -- /I/ â = 0.5
>> 2) /E/ è -- = 1
>> 3) /O/ ò -- = 1
>
> /E/ and /O/ are in effect just variants of /e/ and /o/ in standard
> Italian, so 1/2 and 1/2, according to your criteria.
>
> >4) /dz/ z -- = 1
> Comes in a pair.
>
>> 5) -- /z^/ j = 1
> Comes in a pair.
>
>> 6) -- /h/ = 1
>> 7) /n^/ gn -- = 1
>> 8) /l^/ gl -- = 1
> You counted Albanian /l/ /l~/ vs. Romanian /l/ as 1/2. Why is
> Italian /l/ /l^/ different (except for your bias)?
>
>>--------------------------------------
>> Total : 8.0

From "I count 9" the result amounts to "Total : 8.0", that's what
one would call funny way of counting.
Anyway, I still insist on the fact that /n^/, /l^/ and /dz/ are
all Common Romanian and AR, IR, MR; it is only a later partial DR
innovation who reduced these phonemes to /j/, /^(j)/ and /z/
respectively in some DR subdialects and in literary standard, it
would be perfectly useless to assert a major relevance to a late
independent dialectal phenomenon.
Not that phonetic _inventory_, unlike phonetic _transformation
laws_, would be of major relevance for any GENETICAL LINK... :-)

Regards,
Marius Iacomi