Re: [tied] Romanian Development of /st/ (was: Against ... 'Albanian

Richard Wordingham wrote:

>> by myself I find odd pastionis > p�Sune .
>
> It seems to be the general pattern, even if you might have expected
> VstiV > V$tV rather than V$V.
>
> The word "creStin" < christianus
>> has too an intervocalic "st".
>
> However, _cre$tin_ is exactly what you would expect from
> *cristi:nus, as in the English girl's name _Christina_, once you
> realise that /sti/ > <$ti>, not <$Ti>.

Expeted should have been "cr�Stin" here, remember "creationis" which is
supposed to give "cr�ciun". But that is a minor thing.

>
>> I would like to see more such intervocalic "st"
> since "�Stia", "astea",
>> appears that they do not want to believe in a such VstV > S
>
> Perfectly reasonable - I don't either! I trust you actually meant
> VstiV > VSV.
>
> As to the demonstratives, the suffix (-a) probably wasn't there in
> Vulgar Latin, so (�sta, asta, �$tia, astea) is just (�st, ast�,
> �$ti, aste) + a. Interestingly, the development of the
> demonstrative _iest_ from Latin _iste_ (VL *istus) backs up the idea
> that initial stressed PBR e- (as opposed to E-) yields ie-. Slavic
> influence?

Is there a demonstrative "iest"? I don't know it even as regional form.
There is "�st-", "aist-", eventually even "ist-" but not "iest".

>
> The regular plural forming pattern is exhibited by (just, just�,
> ju$ti, juste) 'just, correct'.

the word is a neologism but it shows the regular forming. Note stV > StV
gust when v= /i/ or /y/. It seems /e/ is not enough for building palatal
medium, thing expected in fact since /e/ is the unrounded form of /o/, thu
hardly to create a palatal sequence.

> Nouns in -st� follow this pattern.
> Apart from nouns in -ist, plural -i$ti, nouns in -st are neuter
> and form a plural in -uri.

There are so far I know no nouns of inherited lexicon which end in "-st";
most of the words which end in "-st" are neologism or they are adjectives.
From such adjectives one can build eassy nouns again trough the way these
are used, but there is nothing which lead us to any ancient word.
For instnance chitara > chitarist but there is no "ceter�">"*ceterist",
where "ceter�" is the ancient word, comparated with "chitara" which is a
neologism.

> The exceptions I could find in on-line
> DEX are _hipocaust_ 'hypocaust' and _test_ 'test', which have
> plurals in -ste, and nominalised adjectives. The rule ste > $te has
> a lot of exceptions - I wonder if the rules for the exceptions have
> been identified.
>
> Richard.

Hmm.. I gues there aren't the exceptions here.The rule is not ste > Ste but
just -sti yelds -Sti.

Alex