Re: The palatal sham :) (Re: [tied] Re: Albanian (1))

From: Mate Kapović
Message: 30082
Date: 2004-01-27

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 4:35 AM
Subject: Re: The palatal sham :) (Re: [tied] Re: Albanian (1))


> Luwian doesn't prove much, beyond the fact
that *k^ and *k must still have
> been distinguished in Proto-Anatolian
(so no change there from PIE).

Luwian proves that in Proto-Anatolian *k, *k' and *kw have been
distinguished. It also proves that *k' > *k IS POSSIBLE since it obviously
happened for instance in Hittite. It also points again to the palat(ised)
nature of *k' and not to the uvularity of *k.

> If the change was conditional, before front vowels only, Luwian
represents
> a third option, intermediate between centum and
satem.

I don't see any point in maintaing the difference between centum and satem
in the traditional way. Albanian and Luwian/Lycian are clearly neither.

>In the light of the
> three interpretations I
mentioned the other day (palatal/velar,
> palatalized/unpalatalized
(velar), velar/uvular), if Luwian indeed has *k^
> > z only before
front vowels, the palatal/velar interpretation is again
the
> most
problematical: it is only compatible with an unconditional satem
>
shift.  If *k^ was palatalized /k'/, one might imagine that the
>
palatalization was lost before non-front vowels, but then it does seem
>
strange that *k was *not* palatalized before front vowels at the same time
> [*].

Why would that be strange? It is more probable that *k' will palatalize
further than *k and one does not need to assume that merger is necessery.
This way the *k' ~ *k difference is made stronger.

>If *k^ was velar, palatalization before front vowels is
fully as
> expected, and if *k was uvular, that would neatly explain why
it was not
> palatalized before front vowels.

Yeah, that would be neat but unfortunately there is not a one empyrical
evidence for uvularity. I agree with Jens, if *k was uvular at one point, it
must have been in the pre-PIE.

Mate