Re: Fanum (was: Origin of Demeter)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...>
> wrote:
> > Richard:
> > >This challenges the etymology Latin _fa:num_ 'sanctuary' <

*fasnom

> > >f. *dHe:s, *dH&s 'root used in religious terms' (Pokorny root
> > >#409). There are Italic cognates Oscan _fi/i/snam_ (I'm not sure
> > >what the slashes in on-line Pokorny mean here) 'temple' and the
> > >Umbrian expression _fesnafe_ translated into Latin as 'in fanum'.
> >
> > Alright, but I have questions. Why *fasnom? Why not *fesnom?
> > How did we get /a:/ and not /e:/? Why did the *s disappear? I
> > understand that *ni-sd-os becomes /nidus/, but only because *s
> > came to be pronounced with its voiced allophone [z]. If we
> > have Oscan /fíísnam/ with [e] AND "s", it seems like a far cry

from

> > Latin /fa:num/ with [a:] and no trace of "s".
> >
> > Of course, I don't think I can dare deny *dHes- as a valid IE root
> > for Latin /festus/ and Greek /theos/, but what I'm saying is that
> > perhaps the etymology of Latin /fa:num/ isn't as straight-forward
> > as previously thought.
> >
> > Looking at Tyrrhenian languages, there is of course Minoan *ipinam
> > (VRY Za 1, KO Za 1), sometimes in the genitive *ipinam-na (PK Za

11)

> > which I have an itch to translate as something like "holy" with an
> > accompanying verb *siru-te. There is no attested Etruscan *fanum
> > afaik per se, but we can suspect that there is because of /fan-u/,
> > /fan-us'e/, /fan-us'ei/, /fan-eri/, /fan-iri/ all appearing to
> relate to
> > "ritual" and showing a productive native root /fan-/. So perhaps
> > Latin /fa:num/ is in fact based on a common Tyrrhenian root *afen-

,

> > becoming *ipin- in Minoan and *fen- in EtruscoCypriot (because of
> > strong quasi-initial accent). There is also Rhaetic /paniun/

which I

> > surmise to be ritual offerings of some kind. Afterall, what else
> would
> > the Rhaetic write about? :)

Beneviste insists that Latin fanum and fas "it is permitted", both
with large (and "sacred"!) "families" are from PIE *dhe:- and *bha:-
respectively. I think *bh-H- is related to the *(H-)p/bh- and *(H-)
p/bh-r/l- root, for semantic reasons, both have to do with "reaching
the other side".

> >
> According to Tacitus, the Marsi with other peoples [all

Nordwestblock

> people, in Kuhn's reckoning] had a "templum, quod tanfanae/tamfanae
> vocabant".
>
> http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/tacitus/tac.ann1.shtml
>
> An altar inscription has: "tamfanae sacrum".
>
> http://www.northvegr.org/lore/grimmst/013_03.php
>

Here's an idea:

Since I proposed PIE *dm-pot- > PGmc *tumft- > Sw tomte, in a certain
sense also the "master of the house", I felt he needed a mate:

PIE *dm-pot-nya "mistress" > Marsic <tamfana>.

That would make Marsic a language which had gone through the Grimm
shift, but had "Old European" vowels: all four instances of vowels in
it we know are /a/'s (or else /m./ > /am/ and /o/ > /a/). Kuhn thinks
the Italic tribes and their languages came from this area,
specifically the Marsi. Perhaps the tricky o/a situation in Latin is
caused by an old dialect mix (the "northern" Marsi lived close to the
border of "Old European"?

Torsten