Re: [tied] Romanian Swadesh list -> 10% substratual

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:

> > 3. Romanian 'burt~a' ('belly') :
> > - is given in DEX with unknown etymology
> > - others consider it a substratual word
>
> Is it more common than pântec?

more common. Pantec at least in my region is as well as unused.
Pântecos as adjectiv is too a bit unusual, instead of it there is
burtos, appelativa as Burtã-Goalã, etc. It has a very strong power of
derivation.

>
> > 4. Romanian 'mare' ('big')
> > - is put by Rosetti (ILR II) in connection with Albanian :
> > 'i math ; i mall ' - 'gross'
> > fem. 'e malle'
> > expr. 'pun'e madhe' rom. 'mare lucru'
> > (with the meaning 'NO big deal')
>
> Discussed here. The most likely etymology is Latin mas, mare.

Hmm.. I would like to remember that "mas" meand if I don't confuse
now, "man". The Rom. "moS" means "old man". The thing with David
Copperfield & Semantic changes should be seen more critical as until
now.

> > 6. Rom. 'a zbura' - to fly, is explained from Latin by 'ex-

volare'

> >that seems to be a forced link : to put 'ex + volare' in order to
> >explain 'zb'
>
> There's nothing forced about it. exvolare > zbura.

Nope. A zbura is not Latin. the function of "ex-" in Latin _is not_
the function of the prefix "s" in Romanian. the word is definitely
from o-grade of *wer- , werfen, and it is cognate with "zvârli". >

> > ==> the sufix in 'oi' (diftong) on the 'basic' words such :
> > Rom. Engl. Latin
> > 'doi' - 'two' - 'dos'
> > 'voi' - 'you pl.' - 'vos'
> > 'noi' - 'we' - 'nos'
> > 'apoi' - 'then' - 'ad post' (?!)
>
> These are all clearly from Latin.

I don't put stil in question the noi & voi ( but there are of course
problems because of nouã, vouã). But to sustain that "doi" and apoi
is from Latin is far away from saying this is "clearly".

>
> > 'oi' - 'sheep (pl.) - 'ovis'
>
> oae < ovem. The Classical Latin word has only been maintained in

Romanian.

Banane, meaning that is false.
The "w" kept its traces in Romanian there where it has been in PIE
an "w".(see douã, ziuã). The topsy-turvy with b&v=w is very much
abused and should be analysed very carefully.

>
> > 'voi' - 'will' - 'volere'
>
> voleo "I want" > vol^u > voiu > voi. Cf. Catalan vull (/bui/).

ah.. that nice combination of Slavic with Latin: "a vrea" versus "a
voi".
just for fun: Slavic volja > voie; from voie > a voi. cf. Slavic and
not cf. Catallan. And know why? Conjucation with -esc instead of
weak "-u".:eu voiesc, tu voieSti.
Anyway , this is not used since it sounds too astrange. The used form
is for future voi, vei, va, vom, veTi, (v)or.
For " I want" the average Rom. use " a vrea", with no -esc in cong.:
vreau, vrei, vrea, vrem, vreTi, vrea ( literary: vor)

>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...

Alex