Re: [tied] Romanian Swadesh list -> 10% substratual

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:40:59 +0100, Piotr Gasiorowski
<piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
>To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 12:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [tied] Romanian Swadesh list -> 10% substratual
>
>
>> Latin tre:s > Eastern Romance trei, with regular development of -s to -i
>after stressed vowel. Cf. Italian crai < cras "tomorrow", noi < nos "we",
>voi < vos "you", poi < pos < post "after", sei < ses < sex "six", dial. plui
>< plus "more", hai < has < habes "you have", dai < das "you give", stai <
>stas "you stand", vai < vas < vades "you go", sei < ei < es "you are", etc.
>
>I've just posted a different explanation of <doi> and <trei> (of course I
>completely agree about nos > noi etc.). You prefer a purely phonological
>solution, and I'd like to relate <doi> and <trei> to similar forms in the
>rest of Romance (including the Western division).

It hadn't escaped my notice. In the case of "2", Vulgar Latin created a
masculine plural form to replace the Classical dual <duo:>. That gave
nom.pl. *d(u)ói, acc.pl. *d(u)ós, as in Old French. Both can give Romanian
<doi>, the nominative directly, the accusative through the soundlaw -V's >
-V'y.

In the case of "3", Old French and Occitan did indeed create a subject case
on the analogy of 1 and 2:

OF OO
masc.subj. uns doi troi uns dui trei
masc.obj. un dous trois un dos tres
fem. une doues una doas

But I don't think this happened in the East, where tres > trei directly.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...