Re: Scatology and coprolalia (was: Expletives)

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 27716
Date: 2003-11-27

27-11-03 13:23, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:

> *k^okWros is reflected in Greek kópros. In view of Skt. s'ákr.t, s'aknás,
> the PIE form is perhaps better reconstructed as an r/n-stem *k^okWr.(t),
> *k^ékWnos.

I know. I just exercised my IE right to thematise things, and
*tauro-k^okWros sounded, if not smelt, better :-)

> EIEC is probably wrong in suggesting a doublet *k^ókWr ~ *sók^r. This
> latter form is based there on ON skarn, OE scearn, Latv. sa:rn,i, OCS
> sIrati (verb), Russ sor (noun),

The Balto-Slavic forms don't seem good to me. EIEC doesn't comment on
any of the problems they present. In Slavic, *k^s > s, but there's no
contrast between reflexes of *sk and *sk^ (for all I know, the contrast
may have been neutralised already in PIE).

> Grk sko:r (skatós), Hitt. sakkar (saknas),
> zasgar-ais "anus", Av. sairya-. In my opinion, these forms cannot be
> traced to a paradigm *sók^r., *s(e)k^nós, but instead reflect *(s)k^ór(h2),
> *(s)k^nés (*sk^n.tós in Greek). Only Hitt. sakkar may be interpreted as
> *sókr., but the variant form zakkar (/tskár/ < *sko(:)r) suggests
> otherwise.
> A form *(s)k^ór- instead suggests a link with the third excrement noun
> listed in EIEC, *kerd- (Lat. -cerda in muscerda, bucerda, sucerda; German
> Harz "resin"; Khot. kha:rgga- (< *xarD-ka-) "mud", MPers. xard "clay",
> Shughni s^arTk "clay", s^arD- "defecate", Pashto axe:r.&l "to plaster"
> (EIEC: "the Iranian all from *kh-"); Skt. kardama "mud, slime, dirt"; TochA
> kärtka:l, B ka:rkka:lle "swamp" (< PToch. verb *kärtk- < *kr.d-sk^é-). The
> problem is that these words point to *k (Iranian *kHVr- or *krV-?), while
> *sk^or- has *k^.

I still wouldn't rule out *sok(^)r.(t) (I have doubts about the
"satemisable" stop, since there are no convincing Satem cognates), from
which we can derive (*skor-h2 >) *sko:r as a regular collective
formation. Heteroclitic weak cases based on *sk(e)n- go well with both.

> The root *k^ókWr-/*k^ekWn- suggests an origin in something like
> **ka(:)k(k)u- + -an-, and this expressive formation was recreated many
> times (MIr. caccaid, Lat. caca:re, Grk. kakkao:, Russ. kákat', Du. kakken,
> all verbal, Arm k`akor "excrement").
> The true bovine excrement is represent by the fourth root listed in EIEC,
> *gWuH-, with variants *gWuh1tós (Arm. ku, Av. gu:Ta-, Skt. gu:tha-), German
> Kot < qua:t < *gW(w)e(:)h1-dho- and Slavic govIno (*gWowh1-no-?).

I think the last item is simply *gWow- plus the adjective-forming suffix
*-ino-, very productive in Slavic. PIE cows left few traces in
Proto-Slavic, but they did leave plenty of cowpats.