[tied] Re: illyrian lexicon or inventory

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 09:09:14 +0100, alex <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
>
>>Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
>
>>> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 23:38:08 +0100, alex <alxmoeller@...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something strange here. Not only Alb. but even Greek seems to
>>>> have developed this "y" in "gi". At least for rom. "jura" (<
>>>> *giura) to swear, the shcolars see it as a loan from Greek.
>>>
>>> Which shcolars?

Of course, none. It's just another canonical alexian mistake.
DEX writes down clearly "Lat. jurare", and Rosetti (since he
made an allusion to his ILR) writes down that suffix -u- became
productive and can produce verbs of Slavic origin or Latin
origin, second example for Latin being "jurui < jura".

>>> Latin iu:ra:re < iouesa:- (from the same root as ju:s "law")
>>> is not a loan from Greek.
>>
>> Rosetti shows in its ILR )1968,pag. 113) the explanation of
>> A. Philippide in "Altgrichische Elemente im Rumänischen" where
>> Rom. "jura" must be explained trough Greek "giuros"
>> ( gama-upsilon-tho-omikron-xi).

That's what Alex reads. The actual text is: "Dr. <jur> (< <g^ur>)
trebuie deci explicat prin gr. <gýros>, întrucît <y> a fost redat
aici prin <ju>, ca în împrumuturile din greceste, si nu prin <i>".
For those not reading Romanian: "D[aco]-R[omanian] <jur> must
be explained through Greek <gýros>, since <y> was rendered here
by <iu>, as in Greek loanwords, and not by <i>".
"a jura" means `to swear`, "jur" means `around` and has nothing
to do with the verb. Of course, the text is referring to "jur".
On the latter, DEX has a slightly different opinion, making it
derive from Latin (Greek loanword) <gyrus>. The point is debatable
but I would tend to agree with Rosetti & Philippide since AP 28
("gyrus non girus") already gives an account on how was the word
pronounced in Late Latin, and Latin /gi/ gives Romanian /g^i/
(as in "gingiva" > "gingie").

> guros (gamma-upsilon-rho-omikron-sigma). Class.Greek /gy~ros/,
> Mod. Greek /jíros/. Borrowed into Latin, verbal form gyrare >
> Spa. girar "to turn", etc. Nothing to do with iu:ra:re "to swear".

Of course.

Regards,
Marius Iacomi