Re: [tied] Re: Albanian names (2) -> Besa, Besiana ("Google 1720" t

Piotr Gasiorowski wrote:

> 04-11-03 21:36, alex wrote:
>
>> Of course it could not be derived from Latin "pax" or from "pacis"
>> because there is no way of getting "-ca" at the end, thus it was
>> supposed already the "-ca" in the joker which is the Vulgare Latin.
>
> It's a ridiculous objection. There are few things more productive that
> the formation of verbs in -a:- in Latin.

that was no onjection; that was the explanaition why "împãca" is
considered to derive from Vulgar Latin *impacare:-)

>
>> The problem which I have in this case is with "sorrë" and "cioarã; on
>> your idea there should have been an *k^wore for having the actual
>> Rom. and Alb. words; does it works? Only with the condition "k^w" >
>> "cio" and that will mean the /k^/ have had an kind of frontvowel,
>> something which allowed to become actual "c^" for giving later the
>> Alb. "s".
>
> *k^w > PAlb. *c^ > Alb. s no matter if a front vowel follows or not.
> Apparently the satemised stop itself was sufficiently palatal. As for
> the <i> in <cioa> (/c^oa/), it's only orthographic and doesn't
> represent a separate segment.

I would agree with you that there in /cio/ is no /i/ and the phonologic
way to write it down should be simply /c^/.
Unfortunately there _is_ a phonetical difference in Rom. where the
africated /c^/ is not the same sound but two sounds: /c^e/ and /c^i/
"el zice" (zic^e)= he says; " tu zici (zic^i)= you say.
There are simply two sounds (mabye because the next vowel is different?)
Anyway, from the pronounciation here, the /c^/ in "ceolofan" is not the
/c^/ in "cioban"

>
>> I have a bad feeling that one of the languages of the Balkans have
>> changed the old /p/, /t/, /k/ in /b/,/d/,/g/ but we don'T know to
>> name it ( illirian, thracian?) either we know in which exactly
>> conditions this happened. Or it was the /bh/, /dh/, /gh/ which
>> undergone this shift to /p/, /t/, /k/ ? Stil a lot of fog here. I
>> guess I have to re-read a bit about Deçev's suggestions on this
>> aspect. I have had this idea when we spoked about "ognis" and the
>> "bher-" root. You accentuated now this feeling that there should be
>> done some more research.
>
> Wake up, Alex. Your bad feeling is a nightmare -- a condition of your
> own imagination.
>
> Piotr

I will do . Prior to this I will give today in the evning a little
curious list with words in Alb. & Rom. where initialy we have the
alternance . In Rom. the words begining with /p/ or /t/, or /k/ and in
Albanian the same words begining with /b/ or /d/ or /g/. I won't expect
to make some light with this list, I will just present it.

Alex