Re: Question

From: tolgs001
Message: 26793
Date: 2003-11-01

>I mean a retained vowel, as in <gehat>. The failure of the vowel
>to drop out is non-Bavarian.

Oh, I see: you mean Yiddish hasn't gone that far, as Bavarian,
in making of <ich habe gehabt> -> <[i hob kopt]>; <gewesen> ->
<gwen> (this one is shared by Yiddish). (Actually, these aren't
good examples, since there is a rest of the prefix: [g] and [k].)

>I mean the coexistence of the two degrees of the diminutive.
>The "-l-" diminutive as such is a common feature of all Upper
>German,

Yes, but practically and strictly speaking only Bavarian (i.e.
Austrian as well) uses it consequently and perseverently, while
using the other one, "-le", in rare and specific cases (e.g.
Herrle, Fraule & Bärle/Bärli)

>but the -l/-ele pattern (tish --> tishl --> tishele) is not
>so widespread.

In Oberdeutschland it is... the norm. The -le is Schwäbisch,
the -l is Boarisch. The same applies to family names.
Eberle, Häufle, Kienzle show that they're Suebian. Jakl,
Gustl, Hiasl, Michl (and myriads of other similar diminutivals)
show that they're Bavarian (incl. Austrian). If such names
have the ending -li, then it's a Swiss sign or... a Hungarian
one: a bit of adaptation of such South-German names to the
Hungarian language (e.g. Brendli, Scherli).

It's a bit curious that Yiddish rather follows the Suebian-
Franconian pattern here, adding the -e [&] to the -l-.

BTW: Can't this suffix family (-el, -l, -le, even -lein)
be seen in connection with a Latin model: -ellus, -ella,
-ellum? (Also noteworthy that the North German counterparts
are different: -ke, -ken, -gen [cf. Röntgen] and in
Hochdeutsch -chen.)

>Piotr

George