[tied] Re: Pre-Germanic speculation

>
> > It is clearly non-IE as many other toponyms for this simple

reason:

> > It cannot be found any matchup with an IE root that works.
> > What holds true for Samsø holds equally true for any other similar
> > item.
>
> OK, so I tell you what I think about this type of placename. I may

be wrong,

> but my opinion is based on my familiarity with English toponyms.

The type

> ...s-ø looks very similar to English island names such as Selsey,

Mersea or

> Bardsea/Bardsey. They are certainly not substratal but consist of a

genitive

> plus OE -i:(e)g 'island' = Danish -ø (very often the genitive is

formed from

> an owner's name, e.g. Beornre:des i:eg, telescoped into modern

Bardsea).

> Since OIc. Sámr, ODan. Sam is an attested personal name, we can

regard the

> Sams- part as a fossilised genitive -- Sam's Island. Now the common
> adjective <sámr> _is_ connected with Saami: it means 'swarthy, dark-

skinned'

> (the Norse stereotype of a Lapp), but of course it doesn't mean

that the

> name was given by Finno-Ugrians or even that any of them ever lived

in that

> area. It was a Norse name and was brought to Denmark by Norse-

speakers.

>

And you may be right, of course. You've matched one ODan. name with
one Danish island, and when you have done that with the rest, you
have proven your case.

As for the idea that FinnoUgric was formerly spoken much more
southerly, it's not mine, it's old hat. Several legends mention
church-destroying trolls named 'Finn'.

From Östen Dahl: The origin of the Scandinavian languages

"
It is tempting to suggest Småland [in southern Sweden] as a candidate
for a region which may have been germanized relatively late. One of
the few relatively uncontroversial ethnic names quoted by Jordanes
is 'finnaithae'. Later Runic stones have almost identical forms
('finaithi' ot 'finhithi') for what is assumed to be the "small land"
today called Finnveden, one of the ares assumed to have had a
specific culture during this period [the first few centuries of our
era] (Hyenstrand 1996, 30). The first element of the name might, of
course, be taken to indicate a Fennic population; Hellquist (1939,
211), however, suggests that 'finn-' initially referred to the non-
Indo-European population of Scandinavia in general...
"

Torsten