Re: [tied] Glen, regarding...

From: Miguel Carrasquer
Message: 26297
Date: 2003-10-09

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:09:23 -0500, "Patrick C. Ryan"
<proto-language@...> wrote:

>> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:07:45 -0500, "Patrick C. Ryan"
>> <proto-language@...> wrote:
>> >My own view is, as a hypothesis, to seek to explain phonological changes
>> >as a result of changing gene frequencies in the population speaking the language.
>> That hypothesis is demonstrably false. I falsify it every day.
><PCR> Would you mind explaining that in greater detail?

I speak phonologically unmodified native Dutch, despite my genes.

>> ><PCR> In my opinion, "social change" can best be understood as reflecting changes
>> >in genetic composition. I have no doubt that when, in certain US states, a certain
>> >critical mass of Latinos is achieved, power will shift to this group, and changes
>> >in the English phonology there will ensue, although national communications media
>> >will slow and somewhat inhibit them.
>> Define "Latino".
><PCR> In the politically correct USA, Latino is the favored term to designate Mexican
>Amerindians, who speak Spanish (even as a second language).
>It is sometimes extended to Amerindians from other countries who speak Spanish.

The US Census bureau defines it as:


Hispanics or Latinos are those people who classified themselves in one of
the specific Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino categories listed on the Census
2000 questionnaire -"Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano," "Puerto Rican", or
"Cuban" -as well as those who indicate that they are "other
Spanish/Hispanic/Latino." Persons who indicated that they are "other
Spanish/Hispanic/Latino" include those whose origins are from Spain, the
Spanish-speaking countries of Central or South America, the Dominican
Republic or people identifying themselves generally as Spanish,
Spanish-American, Hispanic, Hispano, Latino, and so on.

Origin can be viewed as the heritage, nationality group, lineage, or
country of birth of the person or the person's parents or ancestors before
their arrival in the United States.

People who identify their origin as Spanish, Hispanic, or Latino may be of
any race. Thus, the percent Hispanic should not be added to percentages for
racial categories. Tallies that show race categories for Hispanics and
nonHispanics separately are available."

Your attempt to reintroduce "race" into the question (by claiming that
"Latinos" must be _Amerindian_ Spanish speakers) is wishful thinking [in
fact only 1.2% of "Latinos" identified themselves as "American Indian or
Alaska Native" in the 2000 census], and the fact is that "Latino" is
fundamentally a _linguistic_ category. Of course the presence of a large
minority of other-language speakers can in principle affect the primary
language spoken in an area (lexically, phonologically and to a lesser
extent syntactically and morphologically) [although the effect is likely to
be more marked the other way around]. But that has nothing to do with
"changing gene frequencies".

Miguel Carrasquer Vidal